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Thread: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The experts in trending are a lot like the experts in forecasting the weather. They're pretty good in the short term, not good at all in the long term. What is a good bet is that it's not going to be below zero in Phoenix in July and that there isn't going to be a sudden need for advanced degrees in classic literature. Sometimes, the experts are going to be wrong, as when they decided that there would be a huge need for new teachers in California when the baby boomers started to retire. It sounded like a good bet, but didn't take in to account the economic crash.

    Nothing is certain, but it is possible to calculate the odds, at least to a degree.
    Until he passed away last year, I had a retired economics professor living next door. He said that this current recession is way different that previous ones, and will take a lot longer to crawl out of...
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Until he passed away last year, I had a retired economics professor living next door. He said that this current recession is way different that previous ones, and will take a lot longer to crawl out of...
    So far, he is proving correct.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I shop a lot at university surplus outlets.....the waste is incredible. We pay professors and university leaders too much money to waste even more money....
    College president defends salary

    Posted: Mar 24, 2011 1:42 PM PDT Updated: Mar 24, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

    LEE COUNTY: The president of Edison State College is in a meeting defending his paycheck and decisions made by his administration. The emergency meeting was in response to several complaints by Edison State staff. They question why its president is making so much money and how an executive's salary jumped by nearly $100,000 in less than a year.

    Dr. Kenneth Walker has a base salary of $322,400. He also earns $18,000 for housing, $25,000 for college development and $79,955 for retirement/annuity. His total salary is $445,355.

    In September 2010, Dr. James Browder, the Senior VP of Operations, was making $160,000 base salary plus $7,200 for a car. His total salary was $167,200.

    In February 2011 his base salary increased to $208,000. He also receives $1,000 for a car, $12,000 for housing, $10,000 for college development and $20,000 for retirement. His total salary is now $251,000.

    Edison State College has fewer than 20,000 students.

    College president defends salary - NBC-2.com WBBH News for Fort Myers, Cape Coral & Naples, Florida
    And that's a small college.
    Last edited by Prof. Peabody; 05-18-12 at 03:38 PM.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    I'd like to add one more thing about college education.

    I think that we need to change the way we look at education and intelligence. It's fairly easy to game the system. I learned around 8th or 9th grade that all I was doing was memorizing facts and spewing them out on paper. Since then, I've never had to work too hard at school and have gotten good grades (A's and B's) overall. It isn't hard to get good grades at all, yet we have people running around assuming they are 'smart' because they got an A on a test. That really doesn't mean much as, like I said, most of school is just memorization. Thus, I think that we should actually have classes (and there are a few already) where one is tested via applied knowledge, essentially taking what you have learned in class and applying it to real-world situations. Some courses need to be revamped entirely such as History classes (at least on the high school level) where everything is reduced to people and dates. I think that we need to change how we teach also because it doesn't seem that people even remember most of what was taught to them in school, it just goes in one ear and out the other.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  5. #315
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I'd like to add one more thing about college education.

    I think that we need to change the way we look at education and intelligence. It's fairly easy to game the system. I learned around 8th or 9th grade that all I was doing was memorizing facts and spewing them out on paper. Since then, I've never had to work too hard at school and have gotten good grades (A's and B's) overall. It isn't hard to get good grades at all, yet we have people running around assuming they are 'smart' because they got an A on a test. That really doesn't mean much as, like I said, most of school is just memorization. Thus, I think that we should actually have classes (and there are a few already) where one is tested via applied knowledge, essentially taking what you have learned in class and applying it to real-world situations. Some courses need to be revamped entirely such as History classes (at least on the high school level) where everything is reduced to people and dates. I think that we need to change how we teach also because it doesn't seem that people even remember most of what was taught to them in school, it just goes in one ear and out the other.
    Well it all depends what school you're in. The higher up you go both in terms of the tier the school is in and in terms of how advanced it is, the more independent thought and the less memorization is involved. For example, I'm in law school at the moment and it is all applied. 100%. Every test they just give you a legal situation and you need to reason out all the different possible issues involved. Memorization has nothing to do with it at all. They're all open book tests. College is somewhere in between high school and law school in that regard, but the better the college, the more independent thought will be expected of you. Nobody sails through college at a top school just memorizing things.

    It sounds like you're maybe in high school? If so, college definitely requires more of you, and if you're doing well in high school as it sounds like you are, but you don't find it challenging enough, I would strongly urge you to do your absolute best in school and to prepare for months for the SAT because if you do those things you will definitely be able to get into a college that will give you a lot more of a run for your money. It's way more fun and will benefit you a whole lot more.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I am perfectly willing to pay for grades, I do so with my grandchildren, but only thru high school. I won't do this for others....
    and NO, I will not adopt you.
    There are some no talent brown nosed blue bloods out there, but not enough to worry about.
    Biggest problem is the no ambition young who have no desire to develop their talents unless they get a paycheck up front for it. Ever lend BIG money to a friend or relative? Try it, it will be a learning experience.
    Americans don't realize how much they benefit from the few people who deserved to be educated, and how much they are harmed by the people who never should have been accepted for college and also cheated out of available talent by not making college acceptable to the many people who would have benefited other Americans by submitting to this ungrateful and insulting self-sacrifice. Besides, I am suggesting that the few High IQs who should be the only ones awarded a college education will have to pay a 5% surcharge when their income exceeds $50,000 and pay until they retire. So those who benefited most will pay back more than they received and some will never pay back anything at all.

    Americans have this "every man for himself" fantasy, as if geniuses studied something like casino gambling (as in the movie "21") and their brains benefited no one else. Only if that selfish reward of education were true do people have a right to be jealous of the people with talent. But they should be jealous of modern college graduates, because if they are not paid to go to college, they aren't worth anything. Indentured-servitude graduates have run the economy for 50 years and have run it into the ground. We need a new method of achieving economic leadership. Getting a good job by going four years without a job has caused our decline, but the ones enabled by that are not held accountable. People are misled into thinking that more of the same incompetent conformists is the solution. These ambitious imbeciles and greedy workoholics are only out for themselves.
    Last edited by PrometheusBound; 05-18-12 at 03:51 PM.
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  7. #317
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I'd like to add one more thing about college education.

    I think that we need to change the way we look at education and intelligence. It's fairly easy to game the system. I learned around 8th or 9th grade that all I was doing was memorizing facts and spewing them out on paper. Since then, I've never had to work too hard at school and have gotten good grades (A's and B's) overall. It isn't hard to get good grades at all, yet we have people running around assuming they are 'smart' because they got an A on a test. That really doesn't mean much as, like I said, most of school is just memorization. Thus, I think that we should actually have classes (and there are a few already) where one is tested via applied knowledge, essentially taking what you have learned in class and applying it to real-world situations. Some courses need to be revamped entirely such as History classes (at least on the high school level) where everything is reduced to people and dates. I think that we need to change how we teach also because it doesn't seem that people even remember most of what was taught to them in school, it just goes in one ear and out the other.
    You make a good point. There is little value in simply having an encyclopedic knowledge of facts and figures unless you can apply them to real world situations and come up with logical conclusions. That has always been true, but is even more true now that we have a world of facts and figures at our fingertips via the internet.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Birth control.....especially where the starving paupers live...sounds cruel, but not as cruel as letting them be born only to starve to death...
    You appear to have missed the point: we do not in fact live in a situation of a fixed number of jobs for all time, and the world population of humans is going up and up. The number of people in gainful employment has also steadily risen, which proves that one way or another we've clearly found ways to support more jobs (both with and without requirements of higher levels of formal education).
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  9. #319
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well it all depends what school you're in. The higher up you go both in terms of the tier the school is in and in terms of how advanced it is, the more independent thought and the less memorization is involved. For example, I'm in law school at the moment and it is all applied. 100%. Every test they just give you a legal situation and you need to reason out all the different possible issues involved. Memorization has nothing to do with it at all. They're all open book tests. College is somewhere in between high school and law school in that regard, but the better the college, the more independent thought will be expected of you. Nobody sails through college at a top school just memorizing things.

    It sounds like you're maybe in high school? If so, college definitely requires more of you, and if you're doing well in high school as it sounds like you are, but you don't find it challenging enough, I would strongly urge you to do your absolute best in school and to prepare for months for the SAT because if you do those things you will definitely be able to get into a college that will give you a lot more of a run for your money. It's way more fun and will benefit you a whole lot more.
    Actually, I'm in college right now.
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  10. #320
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It probably will never replace all unskilled labor, but those jobs are going to get fewer and farer between. People who are capable of doing more- which is the overwhelming majority of people- need to be preparing themselves to do more. Somebody who fails to prepare themselves for the jobs of the next 30 years is going to be a drain on society and somebody who does prepare themselves for those jobs is going to be a boost to society.


    If that were the case, why don't we have far fewer jobs today than we did 50 years ago? 50 years ago most women didn't work. We have far, far, more jobs today despite the massive leaps forward in technology and automation. It is because as we automate old jobs we come up with new things to do for a living. We focus on optimizing our ability to wield information, we invent new products that people like, we work on extending our lifespans, etc. 50 years ago there were more assembly line manufacturing jobs. Those got automated and now we have people who would have been working in a factory programming computers. In another 50 years computer programming will largely be automated and we will have those people working in some field that doesn't exist today. And 50 years after that, those jobs will start to dry up and they'll be working in some field that the people 50 years from today have never dreamed of. This is how life works. And each time we take that jump forward the new job requires more education than the last job.



    No, it isn't another taxpayer, it is converting a lower income taxpayer into a higher income taxpayer. Like I posted out before, the median person makes an additional $833k in their lifetime if they go to college. That's way more than enough taxes to cover the cost of college.
    we have, or HAD, more jobs due to a positive birth rate and the marginal propensity to consume....

    Marginal propensity to consume - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The "floor" of our economy is based on essentials, needs, things we must have....
    When times are good, we get too optimistic and spend on things we don't need, which boosts the economy and creates jobs.
    But that never lasts forever.....
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