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Thread: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

  1. #261
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    That is emphatically false. Many engineering jobs are being filled by people that come here from other countries on visas. There are many engineering jobs in other countries working for companies that would be here if we had more highly capable engineers. There is an infinite amount of engineering work to do. It isn't like every day the trucks drop off 100 pounds of engineering problems and once you get through them there isn't anything left to do... We have an infinite amount of things that have yet to be invented and problems that are yet to be solved. We haven't even really started in on nanotech for example and that holds incredible promise and is not that far around the corner. We don't have a moon base yet or flying cars or 200 year lifespans or an iphone with a screen that doesn't get greasy yet. More engineers means moving the ball forward faster, more inventions, more new fields of research, more new gadgets, etc.
    look it up yourself....
    instead of just denying it...
    The USA does not NEED all the education it has, if a large percentage of our grads can't find work in their major...
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  2. #262
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Uh, who did you think comes up with those breakthroughs lol? It seems like you were thinking they just like magically appear one day and until they do we're just basically waiting...

    Also the notion that e=mc2 is the last significant breakthrough is obviously ridiculous. The computer came sense then and that has created more sophisticated jobs than anything ever has. The largest engineering project of all time isn't the hoover dam or the sears tower or something, it is Microsoft Windows. By far. New discoveries are made every single day by scientists that warrant further research and development. Every hour really.
    computers are not a scientific breakthrough, they are the result of man needing better tools to speed up research.
    Name some of these breakthroughs, and trace them back, Einstein gave us a great leap forward, and we are still trying to fully apply the knowledge that continues to spill over from his thinking.
    Engineering projects are not breakthroughs...
    and Windows remains.....a very sophisticated tool.
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  3. #263
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    look it up yourself....
    instead of just denying it...
    The USA does not NEED all the education it has, if a large percentage of our grads can't find work in their major...
    No, no. Those are two different things. We need all the education we can get. That is what propels us forward. It's like the gas in our engine. That we're still coming out of a recession at the moment doesn't change that one bit. People getting an education now are still going to be working 30 or 40 years from now. Making decisions about our nation's educational needs for the next four decades based on this week's employment situation would be insane.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  4. #264
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    computers are not a scientific breakthrough, they are the result of man needing better tools to speed up research.
    Name some of these breakthroughs, and trace them back, Einstein gave us a great leap forward, and we are still trying to fully apply the knowledge that continues to spill over from his thinking.
    Engineering projects are not breakthroughs...
    and Windows remains.....a very sophisticated tool.
    Not sure what your point is. If computers created a huge economic boom and tons of demand for engineers and spurred hundreds of thousands of massive innovations, why does it matter if you choose to call it a "breakthrough" or a "tool"?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Actually Phds usually are free. A student that is operating at that level is usually more valuable to the university than the cost of their education. They TA classes and get published and build up the reputation of the school and help get research grants and all that, so more often than not schools either don't charge them or charge them very little.

    As for how far we go, I think all education should be free. Of course, you should have to qualify for it. Not everybody is cut out for graduate level work, but everybody should be able to at least go to college. High school just isn't enough education anymore. It was 30 years ago, but it isn't today, and it certainly won't be 30 years from now, and people who are 18 today will certainly still be working in 30 years. It just seems pathetic to me that so many people are ready to just give up on the future and say "eh, whatever, we can just be a country of car wash operators and ditch diggers"... Come on man! Where is your patriotism? We should be striving for a future where we are leading the world in science and whatnot! Quit giving up so easy! You shouldn't be hoping your kids end up holding down the same kind of job your dad did, you should be hoping that your kids work in a field that hasn't even been invented yet doing work that you can't even begin to understand.



    That makes zero sense. If kids aren't educated enough when they turn 18 that means they need more education, not less.



    You just fundamentally misunderstand the whole situation... The goal isn't to weed out those who are less worthy or something lol. The goal is to try to build up as many people as we can as far as we can.
    A) You don't need to worry about my patriotism, I served for 10 years before being wounded in Iraq.
    B) PhDs aren't free. Maybe Bill Cosby gets one for showing up and talking, but the rest of us have to work for them.
    C) It makes total sense to stop trying to educate those who do not show promise at 18.
    D) We can build up more people by focusing our energies on those that can achieve, not those that hope they can.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    That is emphatically false. Many engineering jobs are being filled by people that come here from other countries on visas. There are many engineering jobs in other countries working for companies that would be here if we had more highly capable engineers. There is an infinite amount of engineering work to do. It isn't like every day the trucks drop off 100 pounds of engineering problems and once you get through them there isn't anything left to do... We have an infinite amount of things that have yet to be invented and problems that are yet to be solved. We haven't even really started in on nanotech for example and that holds incredible promise and is not that far around the corner. We don't have a moon base yet or flying cars or 200 year lifespans or an iphone with a screen that doesn't get greasy yet. More engineers means moving the ball forward faster, more inventions, more new fields of research, more new gadgets, etc.
    Why do you think these engineers from other countries get hired over our engineers. The ones who know our culture and fit in better?
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  7. #267
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    PhDs aren't free. Maybe Bill Cosby gets one for showing up and talking, but the rest of us have to work for them.
    Again, yeah, they usually are. Schools usually cover tuition with grants. At least they do if you're a strong candidate at a good school.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    C) It makes total sense to stop trying to educate those who do not show promise at 18.
    D) We can build up more people by focusing our energies on those that can achieve, not those that hope they can.
    We need as many well educated people as possible. The more the better. The notion that we should just write off most people and doom them to doing jobs from earlier eras is silly. It's just leaving money on the table for no reason. Even somebody of just average intelligence can be far, far, more productive and far more viable in the modern economy with an education. And in the economy of the future, that education means the difference between them being able to participate in the economy in any meaningful way at all or not.

    Every decade a larger share of the jobs require more advanced education. Maybe that's what you're missing. If we don't continue to get more and more of our population more and more educated, we won't be able to compete in that kind of an environment in the future. Somebody who is just able to get some kind of manual labor job today with their high school diploma is not going to have any job at all in 20 years.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  8. #268
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, no. Those are two different things. We need all the education we can get. That is what propels us forward. It's like the gas in our engine. That we're still coming out of a recession at the moment doesn't change that one bit. People getting an education now are still going to be working 30 or 40 years from now. Making decisions about our nation's educational needs for the next four decades based on this week's employment situation would be insane.
    Only some of us need all the education we can get, not all of us.
    Look around all day tomorrow, how many of the people you interact with in public need a degree to do what they do?
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  9. #269
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Why do you think these engineers from other countries get hired over our engineers. The ones who know our culture and fit in better?
    The main reason is that they have far more people at that level of education. I used to run the professional services department in a software company. As far back as 2002 or 2003 we started getting applications from people from Asia that had Phds in computer science. We would get like a handful of applications from folks in the US. Maybe one or two would have an undergrad degree with a major in computer science, one or two more would have no degree, but a couple years of work experience with software. And then we'd get a dozen applications from people in Asia with graduate degrees and almost always at least one with a Phd. It was professional services, so lots of working directly with clients, so we strongly preferred to hire Americans who knew the language and culture better, but still, we couldn't pass up that kind of opportunity some of the times. For our engineering department it was a no brainer since they were not client facing, so they loaded up on highly educated, super skilled, programmers from China, Southeast Asia, Pakistan and India.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Again, yeah, they usually are. Schools usually cover tuition with grants. At least they do if you're a strong candidate at a good school.



    We need as many well educated people as possible. The more the better. The notion that we should just write off most people and doom them to doing jobs from earlier eras is silly. It's just leaving money on the table for no reason. Even somebody of just average intelligence can be far, far, more productive and far more viable in the modern economy with an education. And in the economy of the future, that education means the difference between them being able to participate in the economy in any meaningful way at all or not.

    Every decade a larger share of the jobs require more advanced education. Maybe that's what you're missing. If we don't continue to get more and more of our population more and more educated, we won't be able to compete in that kind of an environment in the future. Somebody who is just able to get some kind of manual labor job today with their high school diploma is not going to have any job at all in 20 years.
    Show me a free PhD. They do not exist.

    Who is denying that there are jobs that require advanced education. We do not need to educate as many people as possible. We can't find advanced jobs for the highly educated now. We have people with college degrees that are holding down high school level jobs...or none. Less 50% of college grads last year got a job.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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