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Thread: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

  1. #231
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Where did I say "they don't spend much of any paid time researching"? I made the opposite point - that teaching is almost a side activity for many professors. Stated another way - students are paying a lot more than they used to, but aren't benefiting from the extra cost.
    Ok, maybe I misunderstood when you were talking about outside grants.

    But, I agree with your basic premise that the students are only reaping part of the benefit of the universities. That's why IMO universities should be funded with tax dollars. We all benefit from having them. Partly because they provide educated workforces, but also because they are one of the only sources of pure, non-interested, non-commercial, research and writing and thought. That kind of thing is worth huge sums of money to society.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Imagining a world where there are no jobs, college is free... sounds like parts of that dream utopian society.



    Yeah, a low tolerance for reading, that's it. Of course, I read pretty constantly, which throws that out the window.



    Because I listened to him, and his partisan hackery wore me down some, it made it next to impossible to read or respond to your partisan hackery. That's all.
    Or, alternately, you projected partisan hackery onto posts and positions where there is none. Are you always delusional/hallucinogenic after Ed Schulz, or just occasionally?

    I'm just trying to get a fix on this bizarre premise by which you consider I-Don't-Feel-Like-Thinking to be a reasonable position to take in this -- or any -- conversation.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  3. #233
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    Or, alternately, you projected partisan hackery onto posts and positions where there is none. Are you always delusional/hallucinogenic after Ed Schulz, or just occasionally?

    I'm just trying to get a fix on this bizarre premise by which you consider I-Don't-Feel-Like-Thinking to be a reasonable position to take in this -- or any -- conversation.
    Yes, I know you guys on the left like to make it personal and all, but that has nothing to do with the 'free' for everyone sort of stuff and 'freedom' from work utopian fantasy land that is often put forth... that you did put forth.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  4. #234
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Why should any undergrad program cost 50 grand a year?

    High schools spend around 10 grand or so, more in affluent areas and in pockets of poverty that attract federal dollars perhaps, but still somewhere around that figure. High school kids are still not considered to be adults, and so have to be watched all of the time they're at school. Universities, on the other hand, have them in class for two or three hours a day at most, and leave them on their own the rest of the time. Moreover, the college can put 200 students into a big lecture hall with one professor. Try that with high school kids and see what happens. Higher education is much less labor intensive, then, and yet the cost is a lot more. Sure, the professors have to have a high degree of education, but most of them still aren't payed any great salary. I've interviewed college professors wanting to go back to K -12, and why? Because the pay is better.

    So, why should college be so expensive in the first place?
    Because our society couldn't function if everyone went to college.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Yes, I know you guys on the left like to make it personal and all, but that has nothing to do with the 'free' for everyone sort of stuff and 'freedom' from work utopian fantasy land that is often put forth... that you did put forth.
    That's funny...France has essentially free education up through graduate school in many fields. Is France a utopian dream?

    Most households, all volunteer organizations, many cultural and community groups, and a host of other institutions and contexts involve plenty of economic activities not structured as wage employment. Are all of those utopian dreams?

    I never posited nor argued in favor of anything being free for EVERYONE. I pointed to one (1) specific subject and possibility -- college education being financially free to the student, and you still seem incapable of even acknowledging this much accurately.

    I guess the real question is this: Is getting you to have an intellectually honest conversation about something a utopian dream?
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  6. #236
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because our society couldn't function if everyone went to college.
    Under current terms and arrangements? Of course not.

    Here's a radical idea...how about not falsely treating the current arrangement of things as if it were the only way to do things?

    This may be a shocker...but things are often connected to each other, such that if you change some aspect of a societal arrangement (like bankrupting students as a tradeoff for allowing them to go to college), some other things would change as well...and some of those other changes may (I know, this is heresy) lead to results other than what you are falsely treating as inevitable.

    Just a thought.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Ok, maybe I misunderstood when you were talking about outside grants.

    But, I agree with your basic premise that the students are only reaping part of the benefit of the universities. That's why IMO universities should be funded with tax dollars. We all benefit from having them. Partly because they provide educated workforces, but also because they are one of the only sources of pure, non-interested, non-commercial, research and writing and thought. That kind of thing is worth huge sums of money to society.
    Your state schools are funded with tax dollars? Mine are. If you want to go out of state, you have to pay a premium. But the cost of college is greatly reduced for in-state tuition. Especially here in CT.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Your state schools are funded with tax dollars? Mine are. If you want to go out of state, you have to pay a premium. But the cost of college is greatly reduced for in-state tuition. Especially here in CT.
    Yeah that's true most places. IMO education should all be totally funded out of taxes like most first world countries do. We should be eliminating as many barriers to education as possible. We're already sliding because of our lackluster pursuit of education and the next generation is going to require a lot more education than we do. We need to be ramping up educationally and when people aren't going to college just because their parents don't have a ton of money, that's huge economic waste. It's like not cashing in a $100k lottery ticket because you don't want to spend $5 on the gas to get to the store.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    Under current terms and arrangements? Of course not.

    Here's a radical idea...how about not falsely treating the current arrangement of things as if it were the only way to do things?

    This may be a shocker...but things are often connected to each other, such that if you change some aspect of a societal arrangement (like bankrupting students as a tradeoff for allowing them to go to college), some other things would change as well...and some of those other changes may (I know, this is heresy) lead to results other than what you are falsely treating as inevitable.

    Just a thought.
    Borrowing money to go to college just like borrowing money to start a business: it's a gamble and there's needs to be a reasonable assurance that you'll make enough money to pay back the loan.

    If that reasonable assurance doesn't exist, then common sense dictates that you shouldn't go deep in debt to get a degree. Anyone who doesn't understand that and goes 50 grand+ in debt to get a degree in basket weaving deserves what they get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #240
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because our society couldn't function if everyone went to college.
    They do leave out the cost involved in making enough colleges to support everyone. But it seems believers of this 'free' idea, as is often seen, don't much think about the reality of funding such things.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    That's funny...France has essentially free education up through graduate school in many fields.
    Have you ever looked into the quality of any of it? Due to the lack of funding most of the school system there has?

    Most households, all volunteer organizations, many cultural and community groups, and a host of other institutions and contexts involve plenty of economic activities not structured as wage employment. Are all of those utopian dreams?
    How many of them feed, shelter and cloth your family?

    I never posited nor argued in favor of anything being free for EVERYONE. I pointed to one (1) specific subject and possibility -- college education being financially free to the student, and you still seem incapable of even acknowledging this much accurately.
    A repeat: If it is free to go to, more people will go just because it is free. You can not then deny people. So in essence you are allowing EVERYONE to go, and go for free.

    I guess the real question is this: Is getting you to have an intellectually honest conversation about something a utopian dream?
    Funny stuff. Trying backing any of your points with unbiased data that supports it, then get back to us on intellectual honesty.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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