Page 23 of 45 FirstFirst ... 13212223242533 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 230 of 449

Thread: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

  1. #221
    Phonetic Mnemonic ©
    radcen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Look to your right... I'm that guy.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:48 PM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    33,414

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The reality is that in the modern information economy most people can't really do anything at all to advance the economy without at least a college degree. We're at a point where running a successful landscaping business or whatever is probably more of a drain on the economy than a boost. It pulls down our average. The opportunity costs need to be considered. Every person doing manual labor means one less person doing a job that might generate 10 times, or even 100 times, as much GDP. So, while definitely it is possible that somebody gets a degree and makes nothing of it, it is becoming increasingly unlikely that people who don't have a degree will make something of themselves.
    Who will mow the lawns of all these wealthy people?

    Like it or not, even the more "manual" jobs are needed and will always be needed. Somebody needs to do landscaping. Somebody needs to run a dry cleaner. Somebody needs to fix cars. And no, not all of them legitimately require a college education.

    A friend of mine told me once that he has two friends... one a judge and one a plumber... and the plumber makes more money per year than the judge. Sounds like the plumber made 'something' of himself to me.

    When your pipes break, are you going to fix them? Probably not. Shoot, even changing one's oil in their own car is fast becoming a lost art.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  2. #222
    Sage
    Arbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    07-12-16 @ 01:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,395
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What did you think the point of education was? Why do you think employers pay so much more for people with more education? Why did you think all the highest income brackets are overwhelmingly dominated by people with advanced degrees?
    The amount of pay a person receives is not indicative of their productivity.

    Well, we've been over that several times now. If you have any counter arguments, I'd be happy to hear them. Like I have said several times, it increases demand, opens up new industries and improves our ability to compete with other countries. Did you have any arguments against any of those claims? Or are you just going to keep asserting that you disagree generally?
    If you want your claims to have any standing, you must back them up with data. It is not necessary for someone to prove you wrong, you must prove yourself right. That's how debate works. So far we have your opinion, zilch else.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  3. #223
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,705

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Why should any undergrad program cost 50 grand a year?

    High schools spend around 10 grand or so, more in affluent areas and in pockets of poverty that attract federal dollars perhaps, but still somewhere around that figure. High school kids are still not considered to be adults, and so have to be watched all of the time they're at school. Universities, on the other hand, have them in class for two or three hours a day at most, and leave them on their own the rest of the time. Moreover, the college can put 200 students into a big lecture hall with one professor. Try that with high school kids and see what happens. Higher education is much less labor intensive, then, and yet the cost is a lot more. Sure, the professors have to have a high degree of education, but most of them still aren't payed any great salary. I've interviewed college professors wanting to go back to K -12, and why? Because the pay is better.

    So, why should college be so expensive in the first place?
    Why should a Lamborghini cost $450k? And who cares that it does? You could have got into that brand new Hyundai for $14k. Some people like the Lambo just cuz they like it and have the money to throw at it. Dont hate...just dont complain if you were the one foolish enough to sign the loan for it.

  4. #224
    Pontificator
    iliveonramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    9,207

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Why should a Lamborghini cost $450k? And who cares that it does? You could have got into that brand new Hyundai for $14k. Some people like the Lambo just cuz they like it and have the money to throw at it. Dont hate...just dont complain if you were the one foolish enough to sign the loan for it.
    I agree with you Vance...it's one thing to say rising tuition is a major problem it's another to whine about paying loans for an expensive private school!
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  5. #225
    Sage
    Arbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    07-12-16 @ 01:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,395
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    In "sink or swim," most people drown.
    Survival of the fittest worked quite fine for a long long time before 'liberalism' came about.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  6. #226
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:28 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    Finally, someone distinguished between quantity and quality. I was a National Merit scholar but I couldn't stand working without pay, which is all college means. I was never allowed to contribute my talent to society unless I sacrificed by living like a 15-year-old until I finished college and graduate schools.
    To be honest, businesses benefit less from smart people who are just there to get paid then they do from people who actually want to work. If all college means is "working without pay" - perhaps you're not one of the few who belongs there.

    But you of course already know that, or you would have made the choice to go.

  7. #227
    Sage
    Arbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    07-12-16 @ 01:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,395
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    You're welcome to take that up with someone if they bring up utopian dreams. Note: a practice or change being beyond *your* political imagination doesn't make something utopian.
    Imagining a world where there are no jobs, college is free... sounds like parts of that dream utopian society.

    Unless you have some kind of disability, referring to the post in question as a wall of text suggest you have an incredibly low tolerance for reading.
    Yeah, a low tolerance for reading, that's it. Of course, I read pretty constantly, which throws that out the window.

    So, to be clear...because you just listened to Ed Schulz, you can't be bothered to put together a reasonable and responsible response to basic points? Ok...got it.
    Because I listened to him, and his partisan hackery wore me down some, it made it next to impossible to read or respond to your partisan hackery. That's all.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  8. #228
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Who will mow the lawns of all these wealthy people?

    Like it or not, even the more "manual" jobs are needed and will always be needed. Somebody needs to do landscaping. Somebody needs to run a dry cleaner. Somebody needs to fix cars. And no, not all of them legitimately require a college education.

    A friend of mine told me once that he has two friends... one a judge and one a plumber... and the plumber makes more money per year than the judge. Sounds like the plumber made 'something' of himself to me.

    When your pipes break, are you going to fix them? Probably not. Shoot, even changing one's oil in their own car is fast becoming a lost art.
    The amount of unskilled labor we need steadily declines. Maybe there will always be people involved in landscaping, for example, but already today it requires probably only about half the number of people it did 50 years ago. Power mowers replaced those reel mowers that take at least 2-3 times as long to do a yard. Weed whackers replaced hand clippers. For heavy duty stuff little Bobcats and whatnot have made things radically less labor intensive, etc. The same is true of all those things. Dry cleaning, plumbing and auto repair all all much more efficient today than they were 50 years ago, and those trends will continue.

    And, on top of that, the amount of skill required to do those jobs will is going up. A modern day plumber often times totes around a laptop with them and uses computer models to figure out what to do in big buildings and whatnot.

    We can imagine that in another 50 years maybe instead of 10 landscapers operating the machines of today we will have one guy coordinating the efforts of machines from his living room miles away. Maybe that means that instead of 10 jobs you can do without a degree we have 1 job that does require a college degree. And maybe 100 years from now 1 computer programmer will replace 100 of those guys who were coordinating it from home and instead of 1,000 manual laborers, we'll need 1 guy with a Phd. in software engineering.

    But, certainly it is true that some manual labor will probably always be needed, and certainly some is today. That doesn't mean that is where we should be setting our goals. That kind of work should be done by the people who can't cut it in the more high return jobs and guest workers. Our goal needs to be to get as many people as possible into better jobs. The lower reward jobs will sort themselves out just fine.

    As a side note- judges are ludicrously underpaid. Many, maybe even most of them, leave jobs making 10 times as much money. Partners at law firms often make over a million a year, sometimes even $5 million or more, but people leave those jobs to become judges because of the prestige, because it's fascinating work, because the want to give something back, etc.
    Last edited by teamosil; 05-16-12 at 06:11 PM.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  9. #229
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:28 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Aren't you contradicting yourself? On one hand you're saying it is "all about the research", but on the other hand you seem to be saying that they don't spend much any paid time researching... It has definitely been my experience that professors spend at least as much time writing and researching as they do teaching. That may not be true at lower tier schools, but lower tier schools also generally don't charge as much.
    Where did I say "they don't spend much of any paid time researching"? I made the opposite point - that teaching is almost a side activity for many professors. Stated another way - students are paying a lot more than they used to, but aren't benefiting from the extra cost.

    (As anyone who has sat - with 350 of their best friends - through a semester-long course taught by a graduate student can attest)
    Last edited by Taylor; 05-16-12 at 06:15 PM.

  10. #230
    Professor

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    08-19-14 @ 02:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,824

    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    To be honest, businesses benefit less from smart people who are just there to get paid then they do from people who actually want to work. If all college means is "working without pay" - perhaps you're not one of the few who belongs there.

    But you of course already know that, or you would have made the choice to go.
    But businesses benefit more from smart people who actually want to work than from the typical mediocre college graduate who actually wants to work. How much effort someone puts into working without pay in college does not indicate how hard he will work when he finally does get paid for it. People have been making the usual suggestions about college education for 50 years and it keeps getting worse. The reason for the failed discussion is that nobody yet has suggested that students get paid for their grades. People bang their heads against the wall with their irrelevant and prompted suggestions and only get headaches. They feel intellectually superior about the incentive motivation, yet won't apply it rationally to college education. "Deferred gratification" is not the most effective incentive and it only motivates anal-retentive students.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

Page 23 of 45 FirstFirst ... 13212223242533 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •