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Thread: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

  1. #181
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, that's not true at all. For two main reasons. First, the US isn't the whole world. We can take more high end jobs from other countries. We currently import lots of educated people to fill in high end jobs in just the companies we currently have. As we get a more educated work force, not only can we start filling more of those jobs with Americans, but we can also out compete other countries for those high end companies. Secondly because educated people generate higher end jobs. The more people we have that are educated enough to make iphones the more consumers there are making enough money to want to buy iphones. It spirals up.
    You are not thinking in a manner that jibes with the real world. Sending every person in this country to college does not mean suddenly hundreds of millions of higher paying jobs will exist.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Nothing is free.
    Things that benefit us all need to be paid for by us all. Such things as parks, schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, and street lights are a benefit to us all, and so should be paid for collectively.

    Clothes, cars, TVs, computers are a benefit to the purchaser, and so need to be paid for by the user.

    We all benefit from having an educated populace.
    It is easy to believe the last line, but the reality is that it is not necessarily the truth. Some might say not anywhere near the truth. Basic education, yes, I'd agree, but a higher level? No, not really the case.
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  3. #183
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The reality is that in the modern information economy most people can't really do anything at all to advance the economy without at least a college degree. We're at a point where running a successful landscaping business or whatever is probably more of a drain on the economy than a boost. It pulls down our average. The opportunity costs need to be considered. Every person doing manual labor means one less person doing a job that might generate 10 times, or even 100 times, as much GDP. So, while definitely it is possible that somebody gets a degree and makes nothing of it, it is becoming increasingly unlikely that people who don't have a degree will make something of themselves.
    Are you serious? Someone has a job and they're a drain on the economy because they have a job?

    Where does that thought even come from? People provide a service - or a product - people buy it if they need it. That's not a drain: that is the basics of how things work.

    Geesh - those of us who are closer to the bottom of the ladder need to just commit suicide and free up food and fuel for those who are better off, then. I mean really: that's how you're coming across.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    You are not thinking in a manner that jibes with the real world. Sending every person in this country to college does not mean suddenly hundreds of millions of higher paying jobs will exist.
    Well of course not. What it means is that we'll generate high end jobs 5% faster than we would have otherwise next year or that the productivity of those workers that got educations will go up 15% and whatnot. And then we'll nudge it up again a bit faster the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that. That's how progress happens- a little bit at a time. But why is that an argument against it?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  5. #185
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    It is easy to believe the last line, but the reality is that it is not necessarily the truth. Some might say not anywhere near the truth. Basic education, yes, I'd agree, but a higher level? No, not really the case.
    How would you define "basic"? Should free public education end after the third grade? The sixth grade? where?

    You do bring up a good point, though. there is no point in training more sociologists and English majors than there are jobs. Free higher education needs to be tied to actual needs. Maybe then, we wouldn't have so many out of work college graduates.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Geesh - those of us who are closer to the bottom of the ladder need to just commit suicide and free up food and fuel for those who are better off, then. I mean really: that's how you're coming across.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well of course not. What it means is that we'll generate high end jobs 5% faster than we would have otherwise next year or that the productivity of those workers that got educations will go up 15% and whatnot. And then we'll nudge it up again a bit faster the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that. That's how progress happens- a little bit at a time. But why is that an argument against it?
    Having an education does not make one 'more productive'. Nor does it mean more 'high end' jobs will be created. What is it you do not understand about jobs not being created out of thin air? They are created out of the need of the market... there is a need, the market creates jobs to fill that need. No company in existence is is going to see everyone now has a degree and think "oh gee, more smart and hard working people, let's create some new positions just because there are people to fill them!"
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  7. #187
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Are you serious? Someone has a job and they're a drain on the economy because they have a job?

    Where does that thought even come from? People provide a service - or a product - people buy it if they need it. That's not a drain: that is the basics of how things work.
    No, no. Somebody who isn't living up to their potential is a drain. If you take a person who could have been generating $250,000/year in GDP as a software engineer had they been educated and instead you have them generating $25,000/year in GDP mowing lawns, then their failure to get an education costs $225,000/year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Geesh - those of us who are closer to the bottom of the ladder need to just commit suicide and free up food and fuel for those who are better off, then. I mean really: that's how you're coming across.
    No of course not. Exactly the opposite- many people who are closer to the bottom of the ladder education wise needs to buck up and get back in school to do their part and everybody needs to be making sure that their kids stay in school as long as they can hack it.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    "No one told me that."
    Then blame yourself, your parents, and your high school advisors. You "knew a private school would cost a lot of money" but yet somehow didn't decide it relevant to determine how much.

    You chose the school you wanted to go to, you decided not to "obsess on the sticker price", and then after the fact want to bitch about what you willingly entered into.

    Live within your means, or deal with the consequences when you choose to gamble above those means.

  9. #189
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    How would you define "basic"? Should free public education end after the third grade? The sixth grade? where?

    You do bring up a good point, though. there is no point in training more sociologists and English majors than there are jobs. Free higher education needs to be tied to actual needs. Maybe then, we wouldn't have so many out of work college graduates.
    The standard k-12 is what I would consider 'basic'. Even though, in some places, and on some subjects, that is a bit lacking in my book. But the 'fix' for that isn't sending everyone to a higher level of education for free. It's fix the lower level stuff, where it has issues.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Then blame yourself, your parents, and your high school advisors. You "knew a private school would cost a lot of money" but yet somehow didn't decide it relevant to determine how much.

    You chose the school you wanted to go to, you decided not to "obsess on the sticker price", and then after the fact want to bitch about what you willingly entered into.

    Live within your means, or deal with the consequences when you choose to gamble above those means.
    Ah, you were confused by my quoting the article? I wasn't talking about me, it was the idiot the article mentioned.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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