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Thread: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

  1. #171
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Man, you spin like a top. You claim everyone having an education is good for us all. Yet have never proven such a thing. As has been pointed out to you, if everyone had a degree, the work force still needs those that don't need a degree. If say 30% of workers have a degree, and you give the other 70% a degree, how does that change the need of employers? It doesn't. The composition of what is needed in the workforce doesn't change. So what you now have is 70% of the people with a degree, paid for by the public, that will never use it, that will not get a 'better' job because of it, because there simply isn't the need in the workforce.
    I don't agree that everyone should be in college but I do agree with Temosil in pointing out that basing ability to attend college by income is ludicrous. It's the opposite of a meritocracy and instead creates and entrenched set of individuals that benefit from their parents wealth. As of now tuition has largely outpaced incomes of lower income but it's fastly approaching lower middle income individuals. I guess it won't be a big deal to most voters until the middle class as a whole find college unaffordable.

    It's a dumb system though
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  2. #172
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    An idiot with a degree is an idiot with a degree - a lazy fool with a degree is a lazy fool with a degree. College is not for everyone and what you do while your there *does* matter a lot.
    It's a major foot in the door. It establishes where you start at a company and what you do. I agree with what you're saying in general...a lazy/unambitious person isn't magically turned into Steve Jobs/Zuckerberg etc. It does have major ramifications though on potential lifelong wealth.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  3. #173
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    IT is elitist crap to think that we all need to be college educated when most jobs can be done with just a HS education and some OJT, and bringing in "guest workers" won't work at all. Many of the Middle East countries hire guest workers, and treat them like slaves. That won't work here, too many guns available.
    I can agree that we all benefit when all are educated, but only if the education leads to a living wage job, no more, no less. You can't expect the poor to pay for the rich to get more education, or the disadvantaged to support the liesure class. I have many relatives who can barely handle high school, they have no business in college.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You're thinking in binary terms. The economy isn't just either "broken" or "working correctly"... We want to grow our GDP as fast as possible. The more people that are doing the most sophisticated work, the faster it grows. Somebody working at McDonalds adds 10 times as much to the economy as somebody picking fruit, and somebody who is working as an office assistant adds 10 times as much as somebody who is working at McDonalds. And a software programmer adds 10 times as much as the office assistant. And a chemical engineer adds 10 times as much as a software programmer. And an inventor adds 10 times as much as a chemical engineer. And a pure science researcher adds 10 times that much. Every person we can lift up one rung on that ladder makes a huge difference.
    All the work has to be done. It's not just about posting numbers on a piece of paper. The more of that work that is done by Americans, the better off America will be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #175
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    There's MORE at stake here than your paycheck - what's the point of having a degree if you do't *have* what it really takes to find and *keep* a good career going?

    People just don't want to accept that it's you as a person that makes your degree work for you - not the degree itself.

    An idiot with a degree is an idiot with a degree - a lazy fool with a degree is a lazy fool with a degree. College is not for everyone and what you do while your there *does* matter a lot.
    The reality is that in the modern information economy most people can't really do anything at all to advance the economy without at least a college degree. We're at a point where running a successful landscaping business or whatever is probably more of a drain on the economy than a boost. It pulls down our average. The opportunity costs need to be considered. Every person doing manual labor means one less person doing a job that might generate 10 times, or even 100 times, as much GDP. So, while definitely it is possible that somebody gets a degree and makes nothing of it, it is becoming increasingly unlikely that people who don't have a degree will make something of themselves.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  6. #176
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The more of that work that is done by Americans, the better off America will be.
    No, that is absolutely false. The more high end jobs Americans have, the better off we are. The more of us that are stuck in low end jobs, the worse off we are.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    This is illiterate bull****. Arguing in favor of spreading the cost of a general social benefit over a larger portion of the population does absolutely nothing to remove personal responsibility. If anything, making college education free or near-free to the student would pave the way towards much stronger meritocratic academic standards. When students are allowed to focus on studying instead of constantly running a week or a month ahead of bills working low-wage jobs, colleges would be freed up to base admission and advancement restrictions upon performance. As things stand now, it's rarely clear if a student's grades, attendance, and general engagement with subjects is reflective of their true potential, or is more an artifact of the artificially difficult demands upon their time and energy outside of class.
    What a mangled up web you have woven. First, you are running with the idea that the public paying for everyone to get a degree is a benefit to society. It has been shown again and again, society does not support a 'higher paying job' for every single person if they had a degree. So the cost to value does not work out as a positive, to those people or society.

    Then you throw in that this would somehow change admission standards.... um, what does who is paying have to do with that? Shouldn't they have performance based standards for admission anyway? And don't most, in fact, already have such things?

    Some people have to work while going to college? Oh my, somebody call the whhaaaambulance. Live is tough, you rarely get to concentrate on one thing at a time, deal with it.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    You can move the goal posts to wherever you want, it doesn't change the fact that you said it is absurd to charge people for education. Meaning you obviously support free education. Meaning you want others to take care of the 'needs' of others (when in reality a college education is not a 'need'). Once again removing personal responsibility and the drive to 'work for what you want in life' from the equation. Like I said, a socialist fantasy world.
    Nothing is free.
    Things that benefit us all need to be paid for by us all. Such things as parks, schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, and street lights are a benefit to us all, and so should be paid for collectively.

    Clothes, cars, TVs, computers are a benefit to the purchaser, and so need to be paid for by the user.

    We all benefit from having an educated populace.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    If say 30% of workers have a degree, and you give the other 70% a degree, how does that change the need of employers? It doesn't. The composition of what is needed in the workforce doesn't change.
    No, that's not true at all. For two main reasons. First, the US isn't the whole world. We can take more high end jobs from other countries. We currently import lots of educated people to fill in high end jobs in just the companies we currently have. As we get a more educated work force, not only can we start filling more of those jobs with Americans, but we can also out compete other countries for those high end companies. Secondly because educated people generate higher end jobs. The more people we have that are educated enough to make iphones the more consumers there are making enough money to want to buy iphones. It spirals up.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    We're at a point where running a successful landscaping business or whatever is probably more of a drain on the economy than a boost. It pulls down our average.
    The heart of the matter exposed.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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