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Thread: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

  1. #101
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    People have ridiculous amounts of college debt that makes you shake your head...if you go to a school that costs a **** ton on loans then yeah..you're going to have a **** ton of college debt.

    I'm more sympathetic with the folks that go through state colleges and try to do things right and still end up with 50k or so...which is not easy to pay off.
    Yeah - I'm not feeling bad for her cost of an ivy league education and after graduation she's still stupid. It use to be that getting into a college like that (ivy league - top notch) meant you HAD what it took and earned your way in . . . money was not everything. But lately it seems that money is the only thing and your brains doesn't matter. Did she have a plan for herself after graduation? did she have a goal - what was it? Business, a career path? Doesn't sound like she thought much of anything beyond school and I think that's also part of the problem.

    if someone goes to an Ivy League school I expect them to be running the world soon - not being a waitress. So I think that has to do with their standards slipping to begin with.

    I don't remotely feel sorry for her 120K there - it costs me about $3 - 4K per semester (full time - 15 - 18 credit hours) to attend and that includes books. And I'm still not going in for a loan after this semester - I'm just bowing out.

    Apparently I'm going ot be better off than she is. And here I am thinking I've made the wrong decision - but other people and their debt issues have made me see otherwise.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 05-15-12 at 03:23 PM.
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  2. #102
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    Clearly, for most people, studying what may get you a decent job is rarely the same thing as studying what you're interested in.

    However, if students are to be expected to go to college primarily for the sake of their future employers, then employers should be paying the tuition, not the students, as the employer is the primary beneficiary of state-and-student-subsidized vocational training.

    I'm hard-pressed to think of any other context in which the student is expected to train and study primarily for the benefit of others...and yet the student is required to pay most of the costs of such training and study. At least if you're a monk or other kind of ascetic, some larger institution or community provides resources for you. Students (and their families), however, pay through the nose...and then they're supposed to ignore their own interests and cater their studies to what employers want on top of all that?!?

    This actually isn't so hard to track: simply tax the hell out of any business which requires its job applicants to have college degrees, and earmark those taxes for supporting public colleges and universities. If they don't want to get hit with that tax, then maybe they might consider no longer listing a completely irrelevant degree requirement for a god damn entry level office position (I was unemployed for about eight months recently, and I regularly encountered such postings).

    This could go either way, depending on one's values: we can drop the pretense and let the current system -- which is already overwhelmingly geared in favor of the interests of employers -- be openly identified as job training (in which case employers should pick up the tab)... or we could renew the classical notions of higher education as a real and substantive venue for exploration of the arts and sciences, incorporating it into a larger human drive to expand our knowledge and capabilities.
    You're getting beyond the brainwashing about this indentured-servitude "opportunity," but its advocates still have you trapped. The key error in this system is that college is work without pay. "Slavery with compensation" is a self-destructive choice. Sacrificing one's youth living miserably on part-time jobs is not worth it. After they cripple you, they give you a Golden Wheelchair. Graduates are bitter and addicted to making up for lost time. The Grind creates Greedheads.
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  3. #103
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    It's not true that learning on your own means sticking to one textbook. Learning in the classroom does mean sticking to one professor's prejudices. The 6th Grade grammar of most college graduates proves* that they didn't have the ability to truly learn even such a basic subject.

    The Diploma Dumboes would say "prove," as Law School graduate Sen. Trent Lott said, "My choice of words were unfortunate."
    Just what careers are you thinking of here - what degrees?

    I think some are complete and total crap; like a Liberal Arts degree. Yes: if someone's willing to go and get a LIberal Arts degree there probably isn't much they couldn't have just learned by living a life and having a job and watching documentary tv shows. But other things - I wouldn't go to an accountant who didn't have the proper certification (etc) - you know. It depends on what it is and what the person plans to do with it.

    It seems lately that people plan on getting the degree under the old 80's belief that it didn't matter what degree it was - as long as you had it - you'd be paid more.

    So - some degrees are necessary and beneficial.
    Others - not so much.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 05-15-12 at 03:31 PM.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Not to pick nits, but if the information is not in a book, but comes from some secret stash of info the professor has, where did the professor get that knowledge? Most professors I have ever had went straight from student to teaching, not out in the world where they get practical experience.
    That's why, in paid professional training, a requirement on society rather than on the students it depends on, we could have retirees teach what only they know is needed on the job.
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    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Wow - Anthropology is one of the most applicable degrees. The field-work approaches you learn in anthropology go FAR in business - people just need ot learn how to identify their strengths and knowledge and apply it towards business.

    I'd definitely hire someone who had an Anthropology degree into my business if I was considering someone to manage or take over the business completely - or even just to fix department issues.
    Sounds like a job offer.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    However, if students are to be expected to go to college primarily for the sake of their future employers, then employers should be paying the tuition, not the students, as the employer is the primary beneficiary of state-and-student-subsidized vocational training.
    Where do you think the student gets the money to pay the loan back genius?

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Well - on that note a lot of businesses do help (partially at least) fund education in some fashion . . . like work study programs, etc - where employment can go toward graduation credits or what have you.

    I think the biggest issue, though, is the lack of desire to train new-hires in a field. Degrees for being a mechanic? Come on - is that necessary? Can't they just learn on the job like an apprentice?

    The military educates most of it's people for the job required - and I'm not referring to the weaponry usage - but just general education required to do a job.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Just what careers are you thinking of here - what degrees?

    I think some are complete and total crap; like a Liberal Arts degree. Yes: if someone's willing to go and get a LIberal Arts degree there probably isn't much they couldn't have just learned by living a life and having a job and watching documentary tv shows. But other things - I wouldn't go to an accountant who didn't have the proper certification (etc) - you know. It depends on what it is and what the person plans to do with it.

    It seems lately that people plan on getting the degree under the old 80's belief that it didn't matter what degree it was - as long as you had it - you'd be paid more.

    So - some degrees are necessary and beneficial.
    Others - not so much.
    We should be allowed to take the CPA exam and all other qualification tests without school education but with self-education. As for Liberal Arts, that's a Leisure Class imposition. It proves only that the spoiled can afford to waste their time and have the power to force others to do so also. College means trying to live like a rich kid without his money. Liberal Arts also provides escapism for possibly dangerous intellectuals.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  9. #109
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Where do you think the student gets the money to pay the loan back genius?
    Which amounts to paying his employers for his ability to make them money. A Paradise for Parasites.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  10. #110
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    We should be allowed to take the CPA exam and all other qualification tests without school education but with self-education. As for Liberal Arts, that's a Leisure Class imposition. It proves only that the spoiled can afford to waste their time and have the power to force others to do so also. College means trying to live like a rich kid without his money. Liberal Arts also provides escapism for possibly dangerous intellectuals.
    Yeah - I agree here. For some certification testing I don't think that a degree shoudl necessarily be required.

    But - just to clarify my issue with Liberal Arts nd other such 'light weight' degrees . . . the problem is that they're not focused. You'll learn a lot - and some of the knowledge can be very useful, sure. . . but it doesn't prepare you for anything except to be a jack of all trades. http://ualr.edu/ba/liba/index.php/ho...-requirements/

    Looking at that - the degree requirements to get the degree at my university: it's like the core-cirriculum extended out over 4 years. It's not a degree - it's just being a 4-year freshman. . . this was designed to satisfy the belief that 'any degree is better than nothing'
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 05-15-12 at 04:09 PM.
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