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Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

cpwill said:
:lamo

all I can think about is that idiot feminist wanna-be-just-like-my-professor yelling at me in class that GENDER IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT!!!

:lamo
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Saying that would be stupid. What you probably failed to understand is that she actually said "Gender roles". In that case, the failing to understand is your own.
 
Omgitsme said:
Of course there are quality studies on the subject.

And I would say that neither are superior. All a kid needs is loving parents who can dedicate their time to raising a child.
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AND I would agree... But we're removing ourselves from any emotional bias here. We're talking big picture and why societies would care..


Tim-
 
cpwill said:
What is available to us seems to indicate (as I recall) that the general best provision is two biological parents plus a grandparent. :shrug:
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Best information available now in two parent homes is two loving parents, gender irrelevant.
 
cpwill said:
:lamo

all I can think about is that idiot feminist wanna-be-just-like-my-professor yelling at me in class that GENDER IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT!!!

:lamo
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It is. Gender is not the same thing as sex. Gender refers to masculine or feminine traits (more or less). Different cultures have different ideas on what is masculine and what is feminine.
 
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cpwill said:
What is available to us seems to indicate (as I recall) that the general best provision is two biological parents plus a grandparent. :shrug:
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No it doesnt. As redress has said the information we currently have states that the sex of the parent doesnt matter.
 
Omgitsme said:
It is. Gender is not the same thing as sex. Gender refers to masculine or feminine traits (more or less). Different cultures have different ideas on what is masculine and what is feminine.
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Those are gender roles. What his teacher said to him went over his head and he actually made fun of himself with his comment, which I find amusing.
 
Ok well I have to go play some Battlefield now.. CYA..


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
AND I would agree... But we're removing ourselves from any emotional bias here. We're talking big picture and why societies would care..


Tim-
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Care about same sex parenting or same sex marriage?
 
Redress said:
Those are gender roles. What his teacher said to him went over his head and he actually made fun of himself with his comment, which I find amusing.
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WHO | What do we mean by "sex" and "gender"?

"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.

To put it another way:

"Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories.
 
Omgitsme said:
WHO | What do we mean by "sex" and "gender"?

"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.

To put it another way:

"Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories.
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Gender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gender is a range of characteristics of femininity, masculinity[SUP][1][/SUP] and others described as third gender. Depending on the context, the describing characteristics vary from sex to social roles (gender roles) to gender identity.
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At least in the US, outside of professional literature, gender can and does most commonly refer to sex.
 
Omgitsme said:
Most commonly yes gender does refer to sex. However I would assume she wasnt using gender to refer to sex. At least I would hope not anyways.
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Either she was using it to mean gender roles, or she said gender roles and cp did not understand. In either case, the failure was with him.
 
Jerry said:
The only requirement given was love. Not sex. And what kind of love wasn't specified, so if you love your sibling as a sibling, you therefore have the right to marry them, according to pro-ssm. If you love your daughter as a daughter, you therefore have the right to marry them according to pro-ssm.
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So heterosexuals can marry their siblings and daughters? If they can, I believe that homosexuals should be able to as well since I believe in equality. If you don't want to consummate your marriage, then that could be ground for the marriage to be voided, or maybe you were suggesting a sham marriage, either way, what you suggests is not the marriage recognized legally that we are concerned with, so you are using a fallacy as an arguement.
 
nonpareil said:
So heterosexuals can marry their siblings and daughters? If they can, I believe that homosexuals should be able to as well since I believe in equality. If you don't want to consummate your marriage, then that could be ground for the marriage to be voided, or maybe you were suggesting a sham marriage, either way, what you suggests is not the marriage recognized legally that we are concerned with, so you are using a fallacy as an arguement.
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That's correct. If there exists a right "to marry the person you love", then folks can already marry relatives and I would be using a fallacy as an argument.

As it is, though, there is no such right. "Heteros can marry the person they love" is just some bull**** gays say when they want to appeal to emotion.
 
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Epic level trolling right here....just drop this gem on the first page of any SSM thread...
katiegrrl0 said:
The right to marry the person we love as heterosexuals do everyday.
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...and watch the **** storm ensue.

But then, what could be expected in a thread based on a lie? Mullet was arrested for refusing to leave, not for seeking a SSM.
 
Mathematician said:
Why would a kid feel different? Maybe because they don't have a "mommy" and "daddy" like normal kids.
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There are lots of kids who don't have a "mommy" and "daddy". And this is about same sex marriage, not same sex couples raising children. Same sex couples are already raising children, have been doing so for quite some time, and will continue to do so with or without same sex marriage. The only thing preventing them from getting legally married does is hurt the family by not allowing them the same rights and benefits that opposite sex couples get for the same type of relationship. The kids will still have the same people raising them.
 
Hicup said:
If I was a green frog but all the other frogs were red, I would feel different, wouldn't I?

Tim-
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So you're advocating what the Likables did, "Only when everyone looks alike, and acts alike, and noone ever gets angry, can we achieve world peace". (Know the reference?)

People are different. Kids are different. We need to be teaching kids that being different is not something that is bad or that should be made fun of. Would you want children to be treating children who only have one parent differently because they don't have both a "mommy" and a "daddy"?
 
Hicup said:
I would think that SS marriage IS a disadvantage to heterosexual marriage in one important category. You can assign any measurable as you wish but, children of OSM are the children of both parents. They are a product of both parents genetically, and that genertic disposition is realized in and as a normal progression of the evolutionary model which is composed of both parents genetic matieral. That is to say that evolution progresses on a macro scale, NOT a microcosom.. The model for evolution consists of a male and a female producing offspring. It does not require adoptions, or invetro, and it cannot include parents that are not the prodgeny and in turn to their own children. Homosexiuals do not evolve as a family they evolve as individuals..

Tim-
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Not all children are the children of both parents though, even when the parents are opposite sex. Many kids are adopted, plus you have lots of step-families out there. Many opposite sex couples use all those things that you mentioned.

My best friend was raised by her grandparents because her father died when she was very young and he had custody of her. Her mother didn't want anything to do with her. We had a guy in school who was black and had been adopted by an older white couple who raised him. There are lots of different families out there.
 
Hicup said:
Says you.. You do not need an advantage but you do need to demonstrate that your gay situation has NO disadvantage.. And it does, but unlike a married dysfunctional heterosexual family, a GAY family is inherantly dysfunctional..

Tim-
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There is nothing dysfunctional about not being able to have children together. Some married opposite sex people choose to be in that situation and we allow it.
 
Hicup said:
first off there is no quality studies on SS parenting, the science is in its infancy.. Secondly, would you say that naturally a genetic bond to a child is superior to that of a non-genetic bond?


Tim-
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No. Parents can raise children with just as much love for them without a genetic bond. To say otherwise is to discount/degrade every adoptive parent on this planet.
 
Hicup said:
Just because it's a social construct does not disqualify it as an evolutionary result.. Polygammy would require that the state change a great deal in order to accomodate, so too does gay marriage. Other than the degree of what we need to accomodate for, why exclude one over the other? Other that what the state has to change or make provisions for, why fundamnetally should we see one as better than the other?

Tim-
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The only thing that same sex marriage requires as far as changing legal marriage goes is changing the sex requirement/block on marriage forms and in marriage paperwork. That is not a fundamental change. It is a very similar change to allowing any race to marry any other race.
 
Hicup said:
If I was a green frog but all the other frogs were red, I would feel different, wouldn't I?


Tim-
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Yes you would. And growing up, I was the only one in my class that had glasses and I felt different. Different does not e equate to bad by default nor does it mean we need to strive to all be the same.
 
roguenuke said:
No. Parents can raise children with just as much love for them without a genetic bond. To say otherwise is to discount/degrade every adoptive parent on this planet.
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There are many cases where adoptive parents have much more of a bond than the biological parents did. There are going to be adoptive couples and gay couples that make better parents than some straight couples and vice versa. You can't put a blanket statement to something like that.
 
Jerry said:
That's correct. If there exists a right "to marry the person you love", then folks can already marry relatives and I would be using a fallacy as an argument.

As it is, though, there is no such right. "Heteros can marry the person they love" is just some bull**** gays say when they want to appeal to emotion.
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You are using a fallacy by being deliberately obtuse as to what is meant by "love" in the context of marriage. Irregardless, the fact remains that heterosexuals can marry the people they are sexually attracted to, who are not closely related to them, who they intend to consummate their marriage and spend their life with. Homosexuals want the same thing, subjected to the same conditions regarding close familial relationships, but they can't just because they are sexually attracted to people of the same sex to them, and that is why there is an inequality.
 
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