Page 18 of 34 FirstFirst ... 8161718192028 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 331

Thread: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

  1. #171
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,991

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    I don't know if you know this, but when you don't bold other parts of a sentence those parts don't magically stop existing or become invisible for others to se.

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    The right to marry the person we love as heterosexuals do everyday.
    Notice that word there....eighth one from the beginning.

    She stated the civil right that was being denied was "The right to marry the person we love" and then proceeded to suggest that it was a right "heterosexuals do everyday". Now, I'll admit it's an act heterosexuals do everyday...but it's not a Civil Right imho, and why I take issue with it was explained in my last post to Katie.

  2. #172
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    09-13-17 @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,405

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I don't know if you know this, but when you don't bold other parts of a sentence those parts don't magically stop existing or become invisible for others to se.



    Notice that word there....eighth one from the beginning.

    She stated the civil right that was being denied was "The right to marry the person we love" and then proceeded to suggest that it was a right "heterosexuals do everyday". Now, I'll admit it's an act heterosexuals do everyday...but it's not a Civil Right imho, and why I take issue with it was explained in my last post to Katie.
    I know your focus is on the word "love"........BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT. You are missing the point because you think her view on the right is limited to "love"....IT IS NOT.

    The subject was the civil right..MARRIAGE......the subject was not the REASON for MARRIAGE.

    GET OFF THE FALSE ARGUMENT.

    YOU ARE A MOD, START ACTING LIKE IT.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 05-12-12 at 05:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #173
    OWL Forever
    katiegrrl0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    at the computer
    Last Seen
    07-07-17 @ 07:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    4,121

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm dealing with an argument put forth regarding the topic of this thread by a poster. I have no issue with the woman's civil disobedience. I too think it's stupid, but I think in MOST cases civil disobedience is stupid on a personal level. I have no real animosity towards her, nor problem with her and sympathize with her for the REASONS she decided to go about it. However, the notion that it was right for her to do it for the "Civil Right" (American asked what civil right she had infringed upon) "marrying the person we love" (Katie's response to "what civil right") is idiotic because there IS no Civil right to "marry the person we love. There is arguably a civil right to marry, but when one begins to interject the love aspect of things as if that is part of a inherent "Civil Right" one is muddling the argument and arguing an inaccurate point.
    Civil disobedience is a strong way to protest. It illustrates the point and gets you arrested so that point is brought into a courtroom and gets a hearing. The civil right is to marry whom ever you choose since we continue to play word games. We are debating on a forum not at Harvard University. If you want to debate in that fashion we would be typing forever trying to make all the tiny points. If you would like to debate that way you are in the wrong place and should find a stage and an audience to grade you on style.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

  4. #174
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,991

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    I have not stated every reason we marry and you know what marriage is and why we do it for the most part. This is a word game just like Jerry wants to play and I don't do word games. I look for debate and discussion. If I wanted to play word games I would do crossword puzzles.
    If you dislike the fact that I take umbrage with you clearly stating that something is a Civil Right, be my guest. If you want to bitch about the fact YOU think its a "word game" rather than come up with any kind of argument against it, be my guest. However, if you seek to choose to go that route rather than actually give me any good reason to think I'm incorrect or show why my points wrong other than the worthless and irrelevant whine that its "playing word games", then I'm holding onto my belief of it. If that's the impasse we're at, so be it. You made a claim, I disagreed with said claim, we've gone back and forth. I had no intent on continuing to talk about my issues with your claim unless you wanted to try and counter my counter. If you don't desire to do that and just want to whine "Word game!" then we should be fine with not continuing this line of discussion unless you try and make the erroneous, imho, claim again.

    I still think, sadly, the main take away from this article is more the shoddy journalism and an instance of clear attempts to drive news stories with a particular agenda focused bend then it is anything revolving around the woman. The Gay Marriage issue is a contentious one in the country with little actual middle ground and with the population at a relative split. It's something that I think within 10 years, regardless of acts of CD or not, is likely to finally shift from the area it currently is at to beginning to lean the other way. It's in part why I think the act of CD was kind of dumb...it's a hollow act that will in the grand scheme of things do nothing but will cause her problems like for a bit of time. Cutting the nose to spite the face type of thing. I don't begrudge her the choice to do it, and if it makes her happy more power to her, but from an outside perspective it just seems dumb given the situation the countries in with regards to the issue now. Which is why the content of the story is less of note to me then the title. It's hardly an issue with just one issue or just one direction on an issue and is found throughout the news media but is symptomatic of the notion that this belief that the news is some impartial observer to give us facts is outdated...if it ever really existed. It's simply a means of propaganda and public steering, but since its not propaganda on the part of the government specifically it is so often given a pass and ignored. Part of me truly wishes we could actually have news portions of news institutions trying to be objective as possible in simply reporting the news and facts and part of me understands it's kind of like wishing to find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow at this point.

  5. #175
    OWL Forever
    katiegrrl0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    at the computer
    Last Seen
    07-07-17 @ 07:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    4,121

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In general, yes. The fact that most people do that doesn't mean its a "Civil Right" though.



    To a point I agree, but again...when talking about "RIGHTS" I believe you have to be very careful with language. The Right to Marry is the right to choose to enter into a marriage or not. Now, choosing who we marry may be the case in some instances. However, the Right to Marriage still applies if the marriage was arranged for you (IE you didn't' choose who to marry) because you're still choosing to enter into the marriage or not even though you're not choosing who with.

    My point is this on rights.

    Rights are generally board. The reason for this is because the more you state a right as a narrowly defined thing the more it then actually places limits on those who can or can't engage in it or how one can or can't engage in it.

    The CIVIL RIGHT is that of "Marriage". Of choosing to enter into marriage.

    WHY one chooses? Irrelevant. How one chooses? Irrelevant. How one chooses who it'll be? Irrelevant. What is relevant and it boils down to is they have the right to choose to get married.

    Now, because everyone has that right that right must adhere to equal protection under the law...which then gets us into all the various things with disallowance of various groups.

    But when you start adding things to the right you actually start limiting it.

    Notice other people talk about the right to marry their love similar to you that I had no issue with. Why? It's simple. They used it seemingly in a way that it could be considered they were just talking about it in a general sense. You however gave it as an answer to what "CIVIL RIGHT" which, to me, indicated you were directly suggesting it was a CIVIL RIGHT. Not just taking about it in a generalized colloquial sense of the use of the term right in the sense of something people simply can do in general...but rather as some sort of actual, tangible, legal standing civil right in your mind.

    That, I take issue with. That's why I spoke my issue with it. Yes is it word games to a point? Indeed. Because when talking about actual CIVIL RIGHTS words matter.

    That was my issue. Not simply the notion of people believing, personally, they have a right to marry whoever they love. My issue was the notion that somehow the "right to marry the one we love" is a CIVIL RIGHT. To me, its not, and if it was it opens up a whole giant ball of wax beyond simply Gay Marriage
    As I said to Jerry I am done playing word games with you as well.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

  6. #176
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    09-13-17 @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,405

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If you dislike the fact that I take umbrage with you clearly stating that something is a Civil Right, be my guest. If you want to bitch about the fact YOU think its a "word game" rather than come up with any kind of argument against it, be my guest. However, if you seek to choose to go that route rather than actually give me any good reason to think I'm incorrect or show why my points wrong other than the worthless and irrelevant whine that its "playing word games", then I'm holding onto my belief of it. If that's the impasse we're at, so be it. You made a claim, I disagreed with said claim, we've gone back and forth. I had no intent on continuing to talk about my issues with your claim unless you wanted to try and counter my counter. If you don't desire to do that and just want to whine "Word game!" then we should be fine with not continuing this line of discussion unless you try and make the erroneous, imho, claim again.
    For f**** sake, Katie never made an argument that marriage for love was a civil right. You cannot seem to separate the subject in a sentence from an adverb. The subject was not love, it was marriage, whether it is a civil right.

    I cannot believe the way you are carrying on.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #177
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,991

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Civil disobedience is a strong way to protest.
    Eh, it can be. I think actually, by and large, it's a relatively weak one. I think it's a style of protest that generally has a low floor and a low ceiling with the potential to rarely but occasionally have a huge boom possibility. I think for it to be a significantly stronger form of protest, or more important in my mind a strong form of impacting change (since that's generally the goal of a protest), you need a relatively specific set of circumstances to create the situation where it'll give you far more bang for your buck. I think in most instances there are more effective and useful means of protesting. At least from an outside, macro stand point.

    I will say, from an internal type of thing, I could see it as being one of the more REWARDING types of protesting, as you get an immediate response to your actions and an ability right off to feel like you've actually DONE something even if that is as simple as getting a blurb in the news or causing those you disagree with some annoyance. But in terms of actually accomplishing anything in terms of your theoretical goal in regards to affecting change....more often then not I think its a generally weak method to go with.

  8. #178
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    okla-freakin-homa
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,623

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Did I miss what you consider a strong way to protest?

  9. #179
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    09-13-17 @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,405

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Did I miss what you consider a strong way to protest?
    The more authoritarian, the less tolerance for protest.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #180
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,991

    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Hmmm...

    Off hand. I think petitions, boycotts, etc can be a strong on average form of protesting to affect change then civil disobedience. The reason I say this isn't because they're any more likely to affect change themselves (Though in general I think they are) but because of the inherent nature in them of essentially evangelism of your point. For a petition or boycott to actually be successful one must successfully encourage others to engage in such a thing with you. This means talking to people, explaining to them why they should go along with your side, and encouraging them to spread the word. Petitions, less so with boycotts, also I think in general invoke a less heated response by those who already oppose the notion than CD does which means I think it provides a higher motivational benefit to your own side than the motivation it provides to the other side to oppose you. So I think in terms of bang for your buck on an average situation, those two are strong. Actual organized traditional "protests" as well I think are a bit stronger on average, though I think HOW a group conducts themselves during such a protest can greatly affect it. The traditional notion of a "protest" is the type of thing that I think has a low floor and high ceiling giving a lot of room for how it could go. That's a couple off the top of my head.

    What I would say towards Civil Disobedience is that while I believe, on average, it is a relatively low bang for your buck and tends not to be very effective especially compared to its negatives....I think that given the right circumstances and situations, while rare, it has the potential when it Booms to have one of the highest Booms of any form of protest. But it's a lot like gambling, where far more often than not you're losing all your cash rather than hitting the jackpot. But when you hit that jackpot, it's a damn progressive slot and those coins just keep rolling.

    Again, this isn't saying Civil Disobedience is BAD. I see it as a perfectly legitimate and fine form of protest and as long as the individual doing it has the principled stance and perseverance and understanding that part of what makes Civil Disobedience what it is and effective is the fact you do it understanding and accepting the notion that punishment for it WILL happen because you ARE breaking the law. My only issue with people who perform Civil Disobedience that has me actually having a problem with them doing it, not just possibly disagreeing with WHY they're doing it or thinking it isn't smart that they're doing it, is when they do it and then bitch, whine, complain, and cry foul that they actually got in TROUBLE for it. The fact and understanding that you're going to get in trouble is part of what goes hand in hand with the benefits of performing such a protest.

Page 18 of 34 FirstFirst ... 8161718192028 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •