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Thread: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

  1. #161
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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Thank you for repeating the irrelevant point to my statement that Gimmie already repeated and I already pointed out is irrelevant to my statement. It's amazingly helpful in beating up the straw man that you and he seem to want to hurt.

    Unfortunately though, its of no benefit of me, because it doesn't apply one iota to what I said since I never stated that Marriage isn't a fundamental right.

    Marriage is.

    However, the "right to marry the person we love" is nonexistent under the law.
    Yes but you and I both know we marry those we love (in relation to marital love). We do not marry our enemies (they may turn out to be) but going in we marry for love. The right to marry is also a right to choose who we marry. The state does not arrange marriages. To extrapolate we select our partner and for what reason. There may be a few for money of prestige but mostly for love. I am sure you wouldn't or didn't marry for hate or dislike. The laws as they were written with regard to marriage in any given state were executed prior to any gay/lesbian rights at all. The gay/lesbian issue was never on the table at the time these were drafted. Just as interracial marriage was not addressed because of the timeline. As marriage evolved and it has we marry for love more often than not. The age of the arranged marriage in the US is pretty much history.
    So we can marry for any reason we want and love is included as a reason in the mind of those who marry. It does apply in this way. It applies because it is a reason why people do marry.
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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You are bringing yourself down to the same level of argument as Jerry. You have both reduced this to some imagined absolutist argument NEVER made by the respective posters and you are both carrying on in an attempt to derail the thread. Now, Jerry can be excused since he does this a lot and apparently you mods don't stop such behavior.....but this is just a REALLY poor example on your part.
    I'm dealing with an argument put forth regarding the topic of this thread by a poster. I have no issue with the woman's civil disobedience. I too think it's stupid, but I think in MOST cases civil disobedience is stupid on a personal level. I have no real animosity towards her, nor problem with her and sympathize with her for the REASONS she decided to go about it. However, the notion that it was right for her to do it for the "Civil Right" (American asked what civil right she had infringed upon) "marrying the person we love" (Katie's response to "what civil right") is idiotic because there IS no Civil right to "marry the person we love. There is arguably a civil right to marry, but when one begins to interject the love aspect of things as if that is part of a inherent "Civil Right" one is muddling the argument and arguing an inaccurate point.

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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The OP didn't lie.
    Mullet was arrested for trespassing, not for seeking a SSM. OP lied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The OP followed the laws of the forum which requires him to make the subject of the thread the same thing as the title of the article.
    There is no forum rule which requires a person to make a thread based on an article which lies. Mullet was arrested for trespassing, not for seeking a SSM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The more accurate statement would be that the reporter or editor who chose the title of the article engaged in an extreme level of hyperbolic editorializing to misrepresent the reality of the supposed NEWS story by using the title as a means of opining.
    And OP perpetuated said extreme level of hyperbolic editorializing and misrepresentation by taking that article and making a thread about it.

  4. #164
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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm dealing with an argument put forth regarding the topic of this thread by a poster. I have no issue with the woman's civil disobedience. I too think it's stupid, but I think in MOST cases civil disobedience is stupid on a personal level. I have no real animosity towards her, nor problem with her and sympathize with her for the REASONS she decided to go about it. However, the notion that it was right for her to do it for the "Civil Right" (American asked what civil right she had infringed upon) "marrying the person we love" (Katie's response to "what civil right") is idiotic because there IS no Civil right to "marry the person we love. There is arguably a civil right to marry, but when one begins to interject the love aspect of things as if that is part of a inherent "Civil Right" one is muddling the argument and arguing an inaccurate point.
    It is not inaccurate, you are missing the point. The argument is that state interest cannot restrict the right to marriage without just cause, Kate is not making "love" the factor as the right.

    You have completely twisted the meaning of the argument in a pointless exercise just as Jerry has been doing throughout this thread.
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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Yes but you and I both know we marry those we love (in relation to marital love).
    In general, yes. The fact that most people do that doesn't mean its a "Civil Right" though.

    The right to marry is also a right to choose who we marry.
    To a point I agree, but again...when talking about "RIGHTS" I believe you have to be very careful with language. The Right to Marry is the right to choose to enter into a marriage or not. Now, choosing who we marry may be the case in some instances. However, the Right to Marriage still applies if the marriage was arranged for you (IE you didn't' choose who to marry) because you're still choosing to enter into the marriage or not even though you're not choosing who with.

    My point is this on rights.

    Rights are generally board. The reason for this is because the more you state a right as a narrowly defined thing the more it then actually places limits on those who can or can't engage in it or how one can or can't engage in it.

    The CIVIL RIGHT is that of "Marriage". Of choosing to enter into marriage.

    WHY one chooses? Irrelevant. How one chooses? Irrelevant. How one chooses who it'll be? Irrelevant. What is relevant and it boils down to is they have the right to choose to get married.

    Now, because everyone has that right that right must adhere to equal protection under the law...which then gets us into all the various things with disallowance of various groups.

    But when you start adding things to the right you actually start limiting it.

    Notice other people talk about the right to marry their love similar to you that I had no issue with. Why? It's simple. They used it seemingly in a way that it could be considered they were just talking about it in a general sense. You however gave it as an answer to what "CIVIL RIGHT" which, to me, indicated you were directly suggesting it was a CIVIL RIGHT. Not just taking about it in a generalized colloquial sense of the use of the term right in the sense of something people simply can do in general...but rather as some sort of actual, tangible, legal standing civil right in your mind.

    That, I take issue with. That's why I spoke my issue with it. Yes is it word games to a point? Indeed. Because when talking about actual CIVIL RIGHTS words matter.

    That was my issue. Not simply the notion of people believing, personally, they have a right to marry whoever they love. My issue was the notion that somehow the "right to marry the one we love" is a CIVIL RIGHT. To me, its not, and if it was it opens up a whole giant ball of wax beyond simply Gay Marriage

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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I don't understand what your point is.

    we have the right to marry..but we don't have the right to marry the one we love?

    The right to marry a specific person is not a fundamental right. Depending on who that person is in relation to you, whether or not they're already married to someone else...you can be prevented from marrying them.

    Now these reasons, and the reasons we have them, would not apply specifically to gay people. The only regulation that applies specifically to gay people is the gender requirement. It's basically because some people think that gay sex is icky.

    My position is that marriage is a religious sacrament (to use Catholic terminology). Denying a person the right to engage in an important ceremony of their religion is unconstitutional, because it infringes their right to the free exercise of their religion. The state should not be performing marriages anyway.


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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Why all the fuss and furor over all of this? Obama says the states can and should direct the course of marriage and hey...lets be honest...for the last 3.5 years liberals were perfectly accepting and tolerant of his position. Hell...many here defended the man repeatedly. If LIBERALS or so anxious and willing to completely sellout your 'values' in the name of politics how the hell is ANYONE supposed to take you seriously?

    Oh...wait...he 'changed'. 3 whole days ago. Because he was pressured into it.

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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Mullet was arrested for trespassing, not for seeking a SSM. OP lied.
    Where did the OP directly state their opinion otherwise?

    There is no forum rule which requires a person to make a thread based on an article which lies. Mullet was arrested for trespassing, not for seeking a SSM.
    No, but if the poster wanted to talk about THIS particular article he has to use that title. The title is mandated by the forum, which means it's dishonest and low to attempt and suggest that the title is the opinion, view, or belief of the OP. They are simply doing what they are mandated to do. It is also dishonest and rather ignorant of what goes on in this forum to suggest that anytime a poster posts a story it means that said story is their opinion or something they absolutely agree with or is their view. We routinely have posters put forward stories they simply wish to talk about and don't hold a strong opinion with either way, or that they only agree with a portion of it, or that they disagree with completely.

    And OP perpetuated said extreme level of hyperbolic editorializing and misrepresentation by taking that article and making a thread about it.
    Again, you are projecting...with complete ignorance as to what the OP actually thinks...your own OPINION of the OPs intent, views, beliefs, and reasons for posting this article onto him and then condemning him for it. It's dishonest and its inaccurate at worst and highly assumptive at best to do such.

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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Yeah because that makes so much sense. Where is your mind at?

    On topic: I think that this woman did a good thing. As Your Star said, she had a good reason for making a scene as her civil rights are being infringed upon by the state.
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Which civil right?

    Sent from my blasted phone.
    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    The right to marry the person we love as heterosexuals do everyday.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    WHY one chooses? Irrelevant. How one chooses? Irrelevant. How one chooses who it'll be? Irrelevant. What is relevant and it boils down to is they have the right to choose to get married.
    You are the only one trying to make "love" relevant.

    Stop with the derail.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Again, you are projecting...with complete ignorance as to what the OP actually thinks...your own OPINION of the OPs intent, views, beliefs, and reasons for posting this article onto him and then condemning him for it. It's dishonest and its inaccurate at worst and highly assumptive at best to do such.
    .....Indeed.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 05-12-12 at 05:00 PM.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #170
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    Re: Lesbian arrested for seeking marriage license in North Carolina

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Me? I do not. However I do know people who have married someone they don't love. I've known people to marry someone because of money. I've known people to marry people because of citizenship. I've known people to marry others due to lust and naivety that they wrongfully believed was love. I've known people to be shot down for marriage by the person they love. I've known people to have the person they love die before they could marry them.

    It's not a word game, its dealing with the things YOU'VE stated. You stated there was a right that does not exist, and I'm dealing with that. If you don't want people actually reading your words and talking about your words how about you stop 3 seconds and THINK about what you write. Rather than lecturing someone about being childish perhaps you should actually try and debate based on facts and reality rather than emotion and fantasy.

    Don't want people to take issue with the words you say, don't say stupid words.

    Love, when talking about the legality of marriage which when we're talking about marriage licenses and laws that's what we're talking about, is not inherent in terms of the constitutionality of marriage nor the "rights' that surround it. It's nothing but an emotional plea, worthless save for those who are either too emotionally invested or too lacking in knowledge to put together an actual legitimate argument as to why the laws are wrong.
    I have not stated every reason we marry and you know what marriage is and why we do it for the most part. This is a word game just like Jerry wants to play and I don't do word games. I look for debate and discussion. If I wanted to play word games I would do crossword puzzles.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

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