Page 18 of 22 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 214

Thread: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

  1. #171
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Only difference is that Americans have American rights and privileges, foreign nationals do not.
    You understand that most Hispanic people in the US are citizens, right?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  2. #172
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Oh brother, not that lame-ass lawyer-trick argument again. Do you know how long the Constitution would have to be if "citizens of the United States" replaced every instance of "person"?

    You realize the English languages utilizes nouns and pronouns for brevity, yeaaaaaaah.

    Foreign nationals have ZERO rights, if they are ever extended it's through the pleasure of of the government through laws and acts, not fundamental by way of the Constitution.

    Fine, put that aside. That's the only ****ing leg you got to stand on, which is why I'm not going to talk about it.
    Well, I don't know what to tell you buddy. You're just flat out wrong. That isn't what the constitution says and that isn't what the courts have ever said. That isn't some debatable point. Nobody that knows anything about the law would disagree with what I am explaining to you whether they are conservative or liberal or anything else.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  3. #173
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,043

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Consider the example I gave earlier about drunk driving. Bigger problem than illegal immigration obviously, and the percentages of people committing it that are white/non-hispanic are about the same (slightly higher) than the percentages of illegal immigrants that are hispanic. Should we start having the police just arrest every white person they see driving and haul them down to the police station for a blood test? How about if that test sometimes took 3 days and some white US citizens were being held that way 3-4 times per year? Would that be something you would support?

    In this country we just plain don't believe in punishing people for things other people did just because they have the same color of skin. Period. It is morally wrong and unconstitutional.
    Not what I was hoping for in a response. More questions and no explanation on how LE should address the illegal alien issue.
    Your last sentence guess says it all. What I read into it is ignore the issue. If so, we will disagree. There are ways for LE to enforce immigration laws without violating citizens and legal alien rights. I was looking for your opinion on how you see LE carrying that out.

  4. #174
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Not what I was hoping for in a response
    Same except I asked my question first and have been waiting for an answer for longer!

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    More questions and no explanation on how LE should address the illegal alien issue.
    Ok, well, I'll answer, but on the condition that you answer my question too.

    By far the most realistic way to go after illegal immigration without doing tons of collateral damage is to go after employers. Racial profiling means harming US citizens, severely, just because of the color of their skin. Carding the parents of school children means creating a permanent underclass of US citizens kids who can't go to school. An enforcement focused strategy means spending absurd amounts of money losing the war like with the drug war. It also means a whole class of people who don't feel that they can report crimes to the police which creates massive hurdles to law enforcement. Etc. But going after employers doesn't have those impacts. It is cheap, it doesn't undermine law and order, it doesn't have as serious of impacts on the next generation, etc. But, there is a catch. If we just suddenly rolled out a system nationwide that effectively made it impossible for any company to hire an illegal immigrant we would collapse the economy overnight. Literally tens of thousands of businesses would immediately be unable to operate at a profit. Entire industries like fruit would shut down and hundreds of thousands or even millions of US citizens would lose their jobs in the crash. That really is not an exaggeration. There are hundreds of studies on it. All policy makers know that. That is why even Republican governors and mayors in deeply Republican jurisdictions never actually pull the trigger on something like that. They campaign about it because their base like the sound of it, but they never actually do it. That's why- because they know if would collapse their economy.

    So, before we can actually shut off the employment we need something to fill in the gap. A real guest worker program. Much larger than what we have now and much more focused on manual labor. Those are the jobs that we are leaving behind as we progress economically. We want citizens doing information economy jobs, but the manual labor still needs to get done. That is the niche a guest worker program should be filling. But, any attempt to do that gets killed immediately by the kneejerk reaction of the right. Somebody calls it "amnesty" and it becomes too politically toxic to go near. So, we're caught in this catch-22. The aggressiveness with which the the right is demanding that we solve the illegal immigration problem is preventing us from solving the illegal immigration problem. What we need is for the right to calm itself down. It needs to take a realistic, practical, look at the issue and get on board with reform. Until that happens, we're stuck with the status quo and people like Arpaio just make the status quo worse by blowing money on ineffective, pointless, tormenting of people, including US citizens.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  5. #175
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,043

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Consider the example I gave earlier about drunk driving. Bigger problem than illegal immigration obviously, and the percentages of people committing it that are white/non-hispanic are about the same (slightly higher) than the percentages of illegal immigrants that are hispanic. Should we start having the police just arrest every white person they see driving and haul them down to the police station for a blood test? How about if that test sometimes took 3 days and some white US citizens were being held that way 3-4 times per year? Would that be something you would support?

    In this country we just plain don't believe in punishing people for things other people did just because they have the same color of skin. Period. It is morally wrong and unconstitutional.
    No. LE without resonalble suspiction should not haul in everyone for a blood test for drunk driving. I also think that is an apple/orange example.

    Are you a lawyer? If so, it explains how you answer and the questions you pose. MCSO is being sued. Does that mean they are guilty, just because DOJ filed the suit? Seems to me they deserve their day in court. Innocent till proven guilty in a court of law.

    I also don't agree with you 100% on how you think MCSO sweeps are being conducted.

    I will agree with you on going after more on the employers of illegal aliens. That is what MCSO has done in many cases. They also then arrest individuals suspected of ID theft or being here illegally. The arrest are done with cause. Guess it will be interesting once the SC rules on SB1070 and State rights.

  6. #176
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Are you a lawyer?
    Not yet, but I'm in law school.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    If so, it explains how you answer and the questions you pose. MCSO is being sued. Does that mean they are guilty, just because DOJ filed the suit? Seems to me they deserve their day in court. Innocent till proven guilty in a court of law.
    No, not just because the DOJ filed suit. The DOJ isn't just a litigant. It is the top law enforcement agency in the country. It conducted an exhaustive two year long review of the situation. They watched thousands of hours of footage from those cameras in police cruisers, poured over hundreds of thousands of booking slips and statistics and paperwork, interviewed hundreds or even thousands of people, secured affidavits not just from victims of racial profiling and bystanders, but also from police officers in Arpaio's force describing how they were instructed to operate. They released all the findings in a huge report.

    And they clearly aren't on some mission to get Apraio. They offered him a very reasonable settlement where he would just have to clean up his act going forward and they would not prosecute him for any of the things he has done so far. All he had to agree to was to permit a DOJ monitor to track his progress. But he refused. That's why it is going to court.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    No. LE without resonalble suspiction should not haul in everyone for a blood test for drunk driving. I also think that is an apple/orange example.
    Why is it an apple/orange example? Isn't that exactly what Arpaio is doing to Hispanic US citizens? Just being Hispanic obviously isn't enough to form a reasonable suspicion that they are here illegally, right? Like 90% of Hispanics in Arizona are here legally, but those in Maricopa county are being regularly rounded up and locked up for 1-3 days because they are Hispanic.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  7. #177
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    By far the most realistic way to go after illegal immigration without doing tons of collateral damage is to go after employers.
    yeah......... except your mistaken to think it doesn't do collateral damage.

  8. #178
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, I don't know what to tell you buddy. You're just flat out wrong. That isn't what the constitution says and that isn't what the courts have ever said. That isn't some debatable point. Nobody that knows anything about the law would disagree with what I am explaining to you whether they are conservative or liberal or anything else.
    Mmmmno, if you don't want to create anarchy and chaos you should probably drop that line of thinking.


    US Constitution is for US Citizens on US soil.

  9. #179
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You understand that most Hispanic people in the US are citizens, right?
    Not sure, 20 million illegal estimate is a big number, there would have to be 21 million legal Hispanics for that to be true; most = simple majority = +51%

  10. #180
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Arpaio Faces a New Sheriff in Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    yeah......... except your mistaken to think it doesn't do collateral damage.
    Well, more accurately I should say that the collateral damage it does would be mitigated by creating a proper guest worker program like I discussed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Mmmmno, if you don't want to create anarchy and chaos you should probably drop that line of thinking.

    US Constitution is for US Citizens on US soil.
    Anarchy and chaos? What the hell are you talking about? That's how we've always done it.

    That isn't what the constitution says. It isn't what the courts say the constitution says. It isn't how we've ever operated as a country... The constitution spells out clearly what rights are given to citizens, what rights are given to everybody, and what limits are on government regardless of who it is acting against. Just asserting that you don't believe it doesn't change that in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Not sure, 20 million illegal estimate is a big number, there would have to be 21 million legal Hispanics for that to be true; most = simple majority = +51%
    It's actually under 11 million undocumented immigrants- Illegal immigrant numbers plunge - Los Angeles Times

    If all undocumented immigrants were counted in the census, that would be about 20%. But more likely most undocumented immigrants did not respond to the census, so it'd be more like 16% or so.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

Page 18 of 22 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •