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Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

digsbe said:
Why do militant atheists have to throw a fit over hanging the 10 Commandments? People are to hypersensitive, and it's a public place and should be allowed to hang.
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The Book of Mormon contains a very good answer to this, I think…

1 Nephi 16:2

…wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.​


Those who are wicked do not like to be reminded of the standards that they are violating. They are often very motivated to do whatever they can to see that any such reminders are censored.
 
digsbe said:
What does this have to do with SSM? I think the hypersensitive ones are those who cannot stomach having the 10 Commandments displayed or want to oppress religious beliefs and freedom of expression by trying to warp the law into stating that you can't display these things in a public place.
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I've always found it very strange that the left have succeeded in perverting the First Amendment, into an excuse for exactly the sort of censorship and suppression that the First Amendment was clearly intended to prohibit.
 
Somerville said:
This is about a public high school in Virginia that has posted the Ten Commandments in a hallway of the school. There were protests and the poster with the Commandments was removed, more protests followed and the poster was re-installed. Now it is in court.



Why do the hyper-religious Christians continue to wast taxpayer dollars in fighting the lawsuits which they inevitably lose in court? For example, here in Florida, this past week - Bradford County Ten Commandments monument dedicated
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The fact of the matter is, you can take nine of the Ten Commandments and very convincingly show why they are good for society from a completely secular and logical framework.
 
Somerville said:
This is about a public high school in Virginia that has posted the Ten Commandments in a hallway of the school. There were protests and the poster with the Commandments was removed, more protests followed and the poster was re-installed. Now it is in court.



Why do the hyper-religious Christians continue to wast taxpayer dollars in fighting the lawsuits which they inevitably lose in court? For example, here in Florida, this past week - Bradford County Ten Commandments monument dedicated
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It wasn't costing anyone anything until militant bigot atheists made it an issue.
 
roguenuke said:
It's an interesting compromise. And it sounds like those against the display are actually not the ones complaining about it (it didn't seem very clear on that part though). If the ACLU goes for it, I say the county should take it. It really sounds like the most likely way for them to avoid a longer and more difficult legal battle which they likely will lose.
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If you remove the 1st commandment, then the other 9 have no authority and become subjective and optional.
 
digsbe said:
What does this have to do with SSM? I think the hypersensitive ones are those who cannot stomach having the 10 Commandments displayed or want to oppress religious beliefs and freedom of expression by trying to warp the law into stating that you can't display these things in a public place/



No, but if a student or faculty want to display something in public schools they should be able to. It's shouldn't be a religion free zone.
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Imo, public schools should be religious free zones since it's mandatory by law that children must attend school and they would literally be a captive audience to religious indoctrination.
 
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Thunder said:
The Ten Commandments were for the JEWS, not everyone else.

when will folks understand this?
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There is some evidence that the Ten Commandments predates the exodus and was inspired from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Which is possible since the Jews stole all the wealth from the Egyptians before they escaped to the desert and BoD could have been among the loot. Which is probably why Ramses chased after them....but I digress, the judge's solution to cut down the Ten Commandments looks a lot like Solomons compromise to split the baby. So it could be interesting to see how Christians feel about that.
 
digsbe said:
and it's a public place and should be allowed to hang.
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That’s the point. It is a public school. If it were a private school they could put up whatever the hell they wanted. Public schools are funded my tax payers so they can’t be used to push a religious agenda. As an atheist I shouldn’t be allowed to post a sign that says “THERE IS NO GOD” or anything else denouncing religion in a public school, nor should anyone be allowed to post a sign promoting religion.

If you want to rent out space and post religious propaganda on bill boards all over the city, spew it on television commercials, post it on the walls of your home or personal business, I will fight for your right to do so even if I disagree with the statement. But keep it out of public schools and government buildings.
 
Sarcogito said:
That’s the point. It is a public school. If it were a private school they could put up whatever the hell they wanted. Public schools are funded my tax payers so they can’t be used to push a religious agenda. As an atheist I shouldn’t be allowed to post a sign that says “THERE IS NO GOD” or anything else denouncing religion in a public school, nor should anyone be allowed to post a sign promoting religion.
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Just so you know you are misusing the first amendment there. What you just said is a common misconception that basically is saying no one can do anything in public buildings that are related to a religion. That however has nothing to do with the first amendment. What it actually means is that the government can't establish a state religion or church. It says nothing about prohibiting speech in such things. In fact, it makes sure it doesn't.
 
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Henrin said:
Just so you know you are misusing the first amendment there. What you just said is a common misconception that basically is saying no one can do anything in public buildings that are related to a religion. That however has nothing to do with the first amendment. What it actually means is that the government can't establish a state religion or church. It says nothing about prohibiting speech in such things. In fact, it makes sure it doesn't.
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The courts are the ones who interpret the Constitution and our laws and time after time after time they reaffirm the concept of Separation of Church and find against schools in cases like this. Now, you may disagree with their interpretation of the 1st Amendment just as I disagree with their interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. Your and my interpretation is opinion. Theirs is law.
 
Moot said:
Imo, public schools should be religious free zones since it's mandatory by law that children must attend school and they would literally be a captive audience to religious indoctrination.
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Indeed - I was a bit peeved last night when they did a super religious song about Bethlehem at my kid's kindergarten graduation ceremony.
 
Henrin said:
Just so you know you are misusing the first amendment there. What you just said is a common misconception that basically is saying no one can do anything in public buildings that are related to a religion. That however has nothing to do with the first amendment. What it actually means is that the government can't establish a state religion or church. It says nothing about prohibiting speech in such things. In fact, it makes sure it doesn't.
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If that is the case, then I have just as much right, if I were a teacher, to make my students bow down to Allah, or worship Buddha, talk like a pirate to the flying spaghetti monster, or get on their knees to Cthulhu. After all, we are talking about freedom of religion here. I think that, with separation of church and state, our forefathers also had another idea in mind.... Freedom FROM religion.
 
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Somerville said:
This is about a public high school in Virginia that has posted the Ten Commandments in a hallway of the school. There were protests and the poster with the Commandments was removed, more protests followed and the poster was re-installed. Now it is in court.



Why do the hyper-religious Christians continue to wast taxpayer dollars in fighting the lawsuits which they inevitably lose in court? For example, here in Florida, this past week - Bradford County Ten Commandments monument dedicated
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I don't see why we really care that much. Hanging the 10 commandments up in school isn't the worst thing in the world. So long as they ain't forcing you to pray or go to church or what have you.

I don't know, in the end I see lawsuits like this on both sides as useless and we could better focus our energies on real issues instead.
 
Ikari said:
I don't see why we really care that much. Hanging the 10 commandments up in school isn't the worst thing in the world. So long as they ain't forcing you to pray or go to church or what have you.

I don't know, in the end I see lawsuits like this on both sides as useless and we could better focus our energies on real issues instead.
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I don't see a problem with the school hanging the 10 commandments up in a hallway, just as long as other religions can have their teachings hung up in a hallway too....... Oops, you mean the school won't hang up teachings other than Christian ones? Then that IS a violation of separation of church and state. The government is not allowed to force any one particular religion down the throats of others.

But if the school would like to hang up ONLY christian teachings in the hallway, how about the quote from Jesus where he says "Give all you have to the poor and follow me"? Or "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven"?

And why do schools hang up plaques of the 10 commandments, when they break an important one by doing the pledge of allegiance in class, where the 2nd commandment forbids idol worship?

You see, there is nothing at all Christian about some demands that some who think they are Christians make. It's not about Christianity. It's about power, and nothing more. When Jesus returns, he is going to be kicking a lot of ass. :mrgreen:
 
danarhea said:
talk like a pirate to the flying spaghetti monster.
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In general, I'm opposed to a state religion. But I would be in favor of any state religion that required its adherents to talk like a pirate.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Sure they can put the Ten Commandments up there....


Right next to Five Pillars of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this: Bhagavad Gita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this: Four Books and Five Classics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And of course, every other religious symbol that can be found in the US.


Let's not play favorites, shall we?
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California's state seal has a greek goddess. It's not problem. So much less than a state seal is a poster on wall. It's a non-issue.
 
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Thunder said:
doesn't this belong in the Religion section?

just sayin'.
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No, because this is breaking news about a court case that hinges on the Constitution. DUHHH!!
 
katiegrrl0 said:
You called people who don't want to have to read the 10 dictates of some religion hypersensitive. It's the same as those religious people being against same sex marriage. It is hypersensitive. It has a lot to do with as the examples relate the same feelings from both perspectives.
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Unless I missed some of the story didn't see anything about forcing anyone to read them. The way I look at it just randomly posting the ten commandments is probably technically against the law. However there is a lot of historical significance to the ten commandments and all in all they are a good set of guidelines. How you interpret them is up to you or the religion to which you belong. Anybody want to argue against thall shalt not kill? Let's give people credit for a little bit of sense. I think we can safely say that most people are not going to start putting the Christian god before all others just because someone hung a poster. Context is everything. If a school wanted to put a list of wise sayings from Buddah or some Muslim prophet on the wall it wouldn't bother me at all if they were truly wise and relevant. There is no reason we shouldn't quote Jesus or Nietzsche if the words contain some good advice or insight. And you know, a lot of people who are for the right for gays to marry also follow the ten commandments. It is particular religious dogma that is the problem.
 
Jerry said:
If you remove the 1st commandment, then the other 9 have no authority and become subjective and optional.
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All of them are optional. I don't have to follow most of them if I choose not. The only ones I need worry about following, according to the law, are those that are written into our laws because following them is good for society anyway. The rest are up to my morals as to whether I want to follow them or not.

More importantly, those in that school are not required to follow those Commandments if they do not wish to do so. Again, only those required by law or school rules, and those first 4 especially cannot be placed into school rules or even law. And even the others really only apply in certain situations, especially to teens. The only one that might be universal here is the "thou shalt not kill" but then again, it would depend on how you take that commandment. What if they kill a bug? Does that count? To some it might.
 
roguenuke said:
All of them are optional.
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If you accept the 1st, the preceding 9 are mandatory. If you don't accept the first, then as I said, they're all subjective and optional.

roguenuke said:
More importantly, those in that school are not required to follow those Commandments if they do not wish to do so.
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The school wasn't enforcing the Commandments. It was just a decorative piece of laminated paper on a wall.

roguenuke said:
Again, only those required by law or school rules, and those first 4 especially cannot be placed into school rules or even law. And even the others really only apply in certain situations, especially to teens. The only one that might be universal here is the "thou shalt not kill" but then again, it would depend on how you take that commandment. What if they kill a bug? Does that count? To some it might.
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It's "murder" not "kill". Ending a life justifiably has always been allowed.
 
Jerry said:
If you accept the 1st, the preceding 9 are mandatory. If you don't accept the first, then as I said, they're all subjective and optional.
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And no one is required to accept the first, especially not those students, so reducing them to six is not a bad compromise considering the alternative is very likely to be taking them down completely after a long legal battle.

Jerry said:
The school wasn't enforcing the Commandments. It was just a decorative piece of laminated paper on a wall.
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Still can be intimidating to students and that is not a good thing in school to appear to promote any religion. I'm pretty sure that if the laws of Islam were hanging on a plaque somewhere, the people of the community would swear that the school was trying to enforce sharia law on the entire student body. Even having the same arguments used against them on how nothing is being enforced, they would be the ones fighting to have them removed.


Jerry said:
It's "murder" not "kill". Ending a life justifiably has always been allowed.
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Killing a bug is not a justifiable killing to everyone, particularly if it is just a bug in the grass on school property. My school had a courtyard where I saw my first praying mantis. I would say killing it would have been horrible and unjustifiable. Some may not agree with me and I'm pretty sure anyone who might have killed it wouldn't have broken any written school rules or laws on murder in doing so.
 
roguenuke said:
And no one is required to accept the first, especially not those students, so reducing them to six is not a bad compromise considering the alternative is very likely to be taking them down completely after a long legal battle.
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Since God is the issuing authority of the Commandments I guess He can edit them down to 6 if He wants. Not sure why God would do that, though.

roguenuke said:
Still can be intimidating to students....
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If a poster is intimidating students then said students have some anxiety problems which need to be addressed.

roguenuke said:
Killing a bug is not a justifiable killing to everyone, particularly if it is just a bug in the grass on school property. My school had a courtyard where I saw my first praying mantis. I would say killing it would have been horrible and unjustifiable. Some may not agree with me and I'm pretty sure anyone who might have killed it wouldn't have broken any written school rules or laws on murder in doing so.
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"Murder" under US laws only applies to humans. The point is to refrain from needless killing, and yes this extends into killing animals just for the fun of it. Our civil laws do forbid most of these behaviors, which of course is why hunters have to have a license, a bag-tag, and can only hunt certain game during a specified time.
 
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