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Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

How odd then that Christianity or God is not mentioned in the Constitution anywhere.

Why do you think that odd?

In fact the only time religion is mentioned is to instruct government from establishing a religion. Now what do you suppose the forefathers intended with that short little clause? Surely you don't believe it was to establish Christianity as a state religion with all the bells, symbols and whistles, do you?

I have no idea what you're driving at here. I feel the reason they instructed government to not establish a religion is because they didn't want the government to establish a religion. If you can come up with another reason, let's hear it.
 
The problem with Christians is that if you give them an inch they take a mile. First it's just an innocent little poster, then they start preaching in the hallways and calling the children sinners, then they start demanding schools teach creationism, then they rewrite the history books, then the next thing you know our tax dollars are supporting a religion. No, I think it's better to nip them in the bud so to speak and not allow them to get a foothold in the door in the first place.

And you think Christianity doesn't already have a foothold in the United States?

Okay.
 
Just "thou shalt not steal" will do.
 
Why do you think that odd?
Because according to you this country was founded on Christianity and had a great influence in writing the Constitution and yet there is no mention of it whatsoever. Don't you think thats odd?

I have no idea what you're driving at here. I feel the reason they instructed government to not establish a religion is because they didn't want the government to establish a religion. If you can come up with another reason, let's hear it.
My point was and still is that this country was not founded on Christianity. The fact that there is no mention of it in the constution except to provide a wall of separation more than validates this fact, but if you want more proof........

Article 11: As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.....

Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1816 - Treaty of Peace and Friendship, Signed at Tripoli November 4, 1796

Signed into law by co-author of the Declaration of Indepence and founding father, President John Adams.
 
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And you think Christianity doesn't already have a foothold in the United States?

Okay.
Hmm, do I think that or do you think I think that? I think this country had many influences and Christianity is but one of many. Yes, it probably does currently have a foothold in some areas of the country, but history shows that foothold waxes and wanes with the times.
 
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Originally Posted by Somerville
But not in the eyes of society until the 20th Century.

Originally Posted by Grant
That's clearly untrue, as pointed out in the examples which were listed.earlier on this thread.

Somerville
and then there was that whole ordinance about how servants were to behave - don't sound like equality to me
Colossians 3:22

That is not a quote of Jesus.

Which means you believe that something in the Bible that is not "a quote of Jesus" has little to no relevance regarding the way in which xians are to live today?
 
individuals have the right so long as it is not part of the education as per the first amendment.

if the school or government itself does it or a teacher tries to implement it,that would be a violation of the first amendment.

I agree with this comment
 
The problem with Christians is that if you give them an inch they take a mile. First it's just an innocent little poster, then they start preaching in the hallways and calling the children sinners, then they start demanding schools teach creationism, then they rewrite the history books, then the next thing you know our tax dollars are supporting a religion. No, I think it's better to nip them in the bud so to speak and not allow them to get a foothold in the door in the first place.

I agree with this comment
 
Where do you suppose that enlightenment came from?

This is the sort of thing that happens when children are not taught their heritage in schools.

I know where it came from. It came from Greek and Roman philosophy that was rediscovered during the Crusades, as the Byzantines and Muslims had preserved that history while feudalism destroyed it during the Dark Ages.

It's one thing to be arrogant. It's another to thing to be arrogant when you are wrong.
 
Why does the sight of the 10 Commandments annoy you? I'm not religious but they don;t annoy me anymore than a Christmas tree does.

Perhaps you. like many others. need some anti-sensitivity training. Their is far too much annoyances occurring over rather petty little things.

I'm not annoyed with the Ten Commandments. I'm annoyed that taxpayer dollars are used to promote religion. I don't want my money to go to preaching. I want it to go to killing mujahideen ;)
 
But why stop there? Do you know what inspired all of this?

The most revolutionary idea in the history of mankind was the idea that the poor, like the rich, had a soul and were recognized as equals in the eyes of God. This is central to the teachings of Jesus, Christianity and all that comes after it in the Christian world. These teachings are still reverberating in the world today. Of course those historical references you referred to are all from the Christian world. The non Christian world is, and was, quite different.

But as this is not being taught in most schools today many students, and adults, will remain ignorant of their heritage and thus the world around them. They think it all happened naturally, that values just rise up from nowhere in particular, and the traditions they inherited will somehow continue uninterrupted into the future.

And what was Christianity inspired by? Always, from a purely historical standpoint, religion is manmade. Always. Greek philosophers thought of the ideas of justice and fairness long before Jesus was a thought in anyone's head.
 
I'm not annoyed with the Ten Commandments. I'm annoyed that taxpayer dollars are used to promote religion. I don't want my money to go to preaching. I want it to go to killing mujahideen ;)
The poster cost maybe $5, they can use my tax dollars to pay for it.
 
I see some of the people opposed to the presence of the Ten Commandments here are the same ones fighting for women to be able to walk around topless in another thread. Why don't you take your own advice? If you don't like them then don't look at them.
 
The question remains before the forum:
Would a poster containing only the six commandments that have no mention of a deity be acceptable in a public school display?

At this point in time, all actions, teachings, displays and behaviour by public schools, administrators, school boards and teachers in the United States should be controlled by the decision found in the Lemon v. Kurtzman 403 U.S. 602 (1971), Supreme Court decision which established the three pronged "Lemon Test"

The government's action must have a secular legislative purpose;

The government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion;

The government's action must not result in an "excessive government entanglement" with religion.

Anyone arguing that the Decalogue must be displayed in its entirety would seem to be advocating for a religious, rather than a secular, cause, no matter how much that same person may claim the Ten Commandments are the basis for all laws and therefore should be taught as part of our nation's heritage. Justice Antonin Scalia apparently agrees with that sentiment: (Why, one wonders, is not respect for the Ten Commandments a tolerable acknowledgment of beliefs widely held among the people of this country?) Scalia dissent in McCREARY COUNTY, KY v. ACLU 545 U.S. 844 (2005) which held that a display of the Ten Commandments in the county courthouse violated the First Amendment.
 
That's clearly untrue, as pointed out in the examples which were listed.earlier on this thread.



That is not a quote of Jesus.

Jesus didn't write the New Testament. Christians are expected to follow the NT as well as Jesus.
 
Jesus didn't write the New Testament. Christians are expected to follow the NT as well as Jesus.

It's the bible, not The Book of the Law of God, so there was never any requirement it to have been written by any deity.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
The poster cost maybe $5, they can use my tax dollars to pay for it.

It ain't the cost of the poster - it is the cost of the legal fight over its removal.

One recent example, having to do with a prayer banner in the Cranston RI high school has cost a school district struggling over budget problems, more than $150,000
City of Cranston and schools to split costs
 
Jesus didn't write the New Testament. Christians are expected to follow the NT as well as Jesus.


Are you a Christian ML? I am not saying that necessarily you are incorrect, but maybe slightly skewed....The one thing that non religious people tend to make a mistake on is that they view Christians as strict adherers of what is written in the Bible. That shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what God did with man when he instilled free will.

But the real question in this thread is not a theological one, that actually is the mud that dulls the simple question. And that question is this

What is so hard about understand our Constitution as it pertains to this?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

The comma and the "or" in this phrase separates the thought here. I think if you ask most Americans today if they want and "establishment of religion" and all that entails, the answer by most Christians, and most Americans would be a stern NO. So to that point, no teaching it in class, no "Baptist public school" per se, no clergy involved in the administration of the school, or funds. BUT, when you have something as simple as a comma, followed by "or" I would think that collage educated people would know full well that that denotes a break in thought, and a new thought added separate of the first in the sentence.

So, just as equally as you can not have Government establish a "state religion", you equally can NOT PROHIBIT the free exercise of religion. So, if a student hung this poster, and administration did not, then it is fine, and the judge should maybe go back and learn fundamental Constitution.


j-mac
 
Here's a timeline from the local newspaper - Bluefield Daily Telegraph

A four-foot tall display of the Ten Commandments was first hung on school walls following the Columbine school shooting in 1999. The display was taken down in December 2010 by school officials after receiving complaints and replaced it with a copy of the Declaration of Independence. In January 2011, the Ten Commandments display was replaced after more complaints from parents and pastors. The display was removed again in February 2011 by school officials with no reason stated.

In March 2011, 50 Giles County High School students walked out of classrooms in protest of the display being removed, but all but 15 returned to class after talking with a school resource officer.

The county’s school board voted 3-2 in June to approve displaying a set of documents including the Ten Commandments, Bill of Rights, Mayflower Compact, the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom and others. The two dissenting members of the school board cited the cost of legal battles as their main reason for their vote.
 
It's the bible, not The Book of the Law of God, so there was n ever any requirement it to have been written by any deity.

My point was that using a quotation from the NT is perfectly reasonable to do if you are trying to make a point about Christianity.
 
And what was Christianity inspired by? Always, from a purely historical standpoint, religion is manmade. Always. Greek philosophers thought of the ideas of justice and fairness long before Jesus was a thought in anyone's head.

This idea of "justice and fairness" did not extend to the lower classes.
 
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