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Thread: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Jefferson was also of the belief that the government belongs to the living and not the dead, so meh.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    Gentlemen

    The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

    I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

    Th Jefferson
    Jan. 1. 1802.


    that letter from jefferson is the basis for separation of church and state,it is in no way affiliated with the federalist papers or the constitution.

    determining the seperation of church and state from that letter would be the same as saying the 10nth amendment doesnt apply because bill clinton wrote a letter about it.
    The federalist papers are not law. They're only useful in demonstrating the intent of the founders -- which is the same use as the Danburry Baptist letter. I don't know why you guys want the government to run your churches so badly, but it's against the law. Socialised religion is illegal.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    that letter from jefferson is the basis for separation of church and state,it is in no way affiliated with the federalist papers or the constitution.

    determining the seperation of church and state from that letter would be the same as saying the 10nth amendment doesnt apply because bill clinton wrote a letter about it.
    Well, there's always the First Amendment's prohibition of the establishment of a state religion. Which, while not saying the phrase "separation of church and state" certainly keeps the government out of the religion business.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post


    You just got uninvited to a lot of interesting parties.
    Pffft. I was never invited in the first place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    The federalist papers are not law. They're only useful in demonstrating the intent of the founders -- which is the same use as the Danburry Baptist letter. I don't know why you guys want the government to run your churches so badly, but it's against the law. Socialised religion is illegal.
    the letter demonstrated where the belief seperation of church and state and freedom from religion come from.the letter was written 11 years after the first amendment was ratified whereas the federalist papers shows the founding fathers intent of the constitution and the later bill of rights.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    the first amendment already prohibits the government from a state run religion,as that would require making laws respecting the establishment of religion.somewhere along the lines someone decided that freedom of religion meant freedom from religion,and decided that a seperation of church and state was in order to prevent all religion from government buildings to praying in school.

    however there is not anywhere in the constitution stating a seperation of church and state,it says that no laws may be made reguarding religion,or prohibiting the excersize of
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Religion is like a penis. It's ok to have one. It's ok to be proud of it. It's not ok to wave it around in everyone's face.
    *spit take*

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Mine is not my opinion but the opinion found in the federalist papers. Yours was dreamed up to restrict speech without any grounding in the Constitution or the federalist papers for such a decision.

    You might not know this but when I look at supreme court ruling I look for how they came to that decision and see nothing in those decisions that is accurate. Maybe you can help me and tell me what is supporting such a claim that was made in the supreme court. If not, I see nothing in there to support the claims.
    The Federalist Papers are not law.

    You might not know this, but you aren't a Supreme Court justice. You're free to have a different point of view, but their interpretation of the Constitution is what counts. Unless you are a Constitutional law scholar, and the greatest unrecognized legal mind of your generation...


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    the letter demonstrated where the belief seperation of church and state and freedom from religion come from.the letter was written 11 years after the first amendment was ratified whereas the federalist papers shows the founding fathers intent of the constitution and the later bill of rights.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    the first amendment already prohibits the government from a state run religion,as that would require making laws respecting the establishment of religion.somewhere along the lines someone decided that freedom of religion meant freedom from religion,and decided that a seperation of church and state was in order to prevent all religion from government buildings to praying in school.

    however there is not anywhere in the constitution stating a seperation of church and state,it says that no laws may be made reguarding religion,or prohibiting the excersize of
    The wall separating the two is not mirrored glass that allows one way and not the other. Freedom from those things is implied.

    Take the other parts of the First Amendment, like Free Press. They have the right to print it, but they don't have the right to force you to read it. You have the right to speak your mind, but you don't have the right to make me listen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The wall separating the two is not mirrored glass that allows one way and not the other. Freedom from those things is implied.

    Take the other parts of the First Amendment, like Free Press. They have the right to print it, but they don't have the right to force you to read it. You have the right to speak your mind, but you don't have the right to make me listen.
    then it simply comes down to ones definition of forced.are you not forced to see advertising on the road?are you not forced to see campaign ads,or listen to public speakers on the street corner.i fail to see where anyone is forced religion upon them by the state,and i have yet to see anything that suggests freedom from religion in the constitution.

    freedom from religion can also be viewed as prohibiting the free excersise of,since deciding where people are allowed and not allowed to practice religion is a direct violation of the first amendment,as clearly written.

    however posting or practicing religious matters is fully supported by the first amendment,i fail to see where a building is a person or a group,so technically there is nothing in the constitution protecting a courthouse or a school's right to have religious matter,but banning something like praying within that school or courthouse directly violated the first amendment blatantly in clear english!!!
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    the first amendment already prohibits the government from a state run religion
    Public schools are run by the government. Turn the schools into churches and you have government churches. Teaching religious mores is the job of the churches, not the job of the government. Anyone who values freedom understands that letting the government take over religion is an instant path to tyranny, which is why we have a separation between the two.

    The separation clause is lifted from the Virginia rights statements, authored by Jefferson. Jefferson explaining what he meant is a lot more telling than you explaining what he meant, especially when he disagrees with you about what he meant.

    Ie: You're wrong. Theocracy is bad. It's also illegal. No government churches, including in the school system.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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