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Thread: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

  1. #271
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    It is only through a misreading of the separation clause in the first Amendment that brings about this ridiculousness in the first place.

    j-mac
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is only through a misreading of the separation clause in the first Amendment that brings about this ridiculousness in the first place.

    j-mac

    In your opinion.

    I would suggest finding a copy of the Robert Heinlein collection- Revolt in 2100, read it and think about it.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  3. #273
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is only through a misreading of the separation clause in the first Amendment that brings about this ridiculousness in the first place.

    j-mac
    No it is the neo-Conservative definition that eludes reality, when it comes to the separation of church and state that the 1st Amendment makes law.

    Fist of all the assertion that the 1st Amendment only protects us from government tyranny ignores historical facts. But we do have somewhere to turn to get the legal definition of the seperation of church and state.

    "The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'" 330 U.S. 1, 15-16.

    If you feel that a political group or even individuals are breaking the law take them to court. Dont run around trying to tell people something which is not true. The courts have defined the 1st Amendment already and it is up to the government to enforce the law of the land. Which includes going after people who are trying to deny Americans the right to believe whatever they want.

    I am an Atheist myself but that is my individual choice and I demand that everyone has the right to make their own choices. So in a sense I am an proponent of religion as it is an indicator of our freedom just as the right to not belong to a religion is as well. Either way neither Atheist or Theist has the right to tell anyone else what to believe. ANd the law is clear that especially the government has no place in it either. Which includes placing religious articles on public owned property. Which also means that no anti-religious articles should be placed on public owned property. But somethings of historical value should be grandfathered in as an exception not the rule. Things though like "In god we trust" should not be on money anymore than "Not in gods we trust" or "in allah we trust" etc. Plus the "one nation under god" phrase directly insists that all Americans live under god. And those that do not are implied to not be one with the nation. In other words it is asserting that Atheists (all Atheists) are anti-American.

    Anyways to assert that the 1st Amendment is a misinterpretation is an legal challenge to existing well established law. Get a lawyer.
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 05-17-12 at 09:38 PM.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Do you want them teaching your kids Islam or Wicca, as long as they only do it a little bit?
    No, and I don't want them teaching Marxism, or liberalism either, but I can't stop that religion from taking place at my tax payer dollar either can I?


    j-mac
    1. When you find yourself in the minority, which you will soon enough, the only thing people like you will have to protect yourselves is the 1st amendment that you're currently attacking.
    2. Words mean things.

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    Yes it does matter. Once again there is no indoctrination, education or prostelyting going on. They are not establishing a religion they are just displaying an artifact of a certain type of religion. I wouldn't mind at all if they put some list of wise sayings of Buddah on the wall. Some individual items or teachings of a religion can be good and worthwhile to learn about in themselves.
    If it were a part of a history of law display it would be fine. It wasn't. It was an attempt to proselytise Yahwehism.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  5. #275
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    1. When you find yourself in the minority, which you will soon enough, the only thing people like you will have to protect yourselves is the 1st amendment that you're currently attacking.
    2. Words mean things.



    If it were a part of a history of law display it would be fine. It wasn't. It was an attempt to proselytise Yahwehism.

    It could be Elohimism too
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is only through a misreading of the separation clause in the first Amendment that brings about this ridiculousness in the first place.

    j-mac
    Well, at least you admit that it's a "separation" clause. Thats a good start.

  7. #277
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The Supreme Court is not a school. They have ruled that the 10 Commandments in school is out of place.

    I wonder what Teacher says when Little Johnny, on a field trip to the Supreme Court, points to Moses says, "Teacher, who's that? And what is he holding?" This is hilarious.


    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Plus, they are part of an actual group of many different sets of laws. They actually fit into a theme, and are not just there as the only laws being represented.

    As in Moses (and Muhammad and Solomon, etc.) said or did something useful for our society.
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    (W)hen you bring up Moses presence in the Courtroom, you really should mention that he is just one of many figures and is not prominent in the sculpture.
    I did in Post 260. I specifically mentioned "Muhammad and sixteen other lawgivers." I also linked the .PDF file from the Supreme Court's website that detailed who was on the freizes.
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    In your opinion.

    I would suggest finding a copy of the Robert Heinlein collection- Revolt in 2100, read it and think about it.

    And I would suggest that instead of thinking up Science Fiction writers that align with some sort of one world view that you agree with, that maybe you stick with people that actually read what the founders were saying, and intending about our founding documents.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Well, at least you admit that it's a "separation" clause. Thats a good start.
    Of course there is a separation. The founders in no way wanted the government to establish a state religion, and have it meld with government like what they fled in England...But, I think that todays liberal/Progressive/Marxists take it to the extreme in the tyranny of the minority.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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