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Thread: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

  1. #251
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    We have classes now, usually in middle school that study the religions of the world. But yet somehow liberals in this country are so frightened, intimidated even by the 10 commandments that any excuse to diminish them, mock them, keep them from sight, is their goal.

    Stopping the high school valedictorian from saying a prayer at invocation.

    A judge that threatens another if they even say an opening prayer, or so much as mention God in the Pledge.

    This is a predominantly Christian nation, that contrary to Obama's declaration that we are not, is no threat to liberals, or any other religions. Yet as scared as some seem to be, conservatives know better but allow themselves to be cowed under by these liberal bullies.

    j-mac
    Actually, I don't agree with many of those, particularly the valedictorian speech one, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with allowing this random poster to stay up just because the community Christians feel they are being persecuted and should be allowed to put up random religious sayings simply because they honestly believe people should have to believe in them.

    I don't for one minute believe that this banner was up for a student history or religious studies class. This just doesn't fit with the situation. I'd be fine with it if we were talking about a situation where it was part of some religious studies thing or history of law thing, but it wasn't. It still isn't. The only reason they put up the rest is because they were advised to do so by legal counsel. That is just wrong because it shows their intention had nothing to do with actually teaching what public schools are supposed to teach and everything to do with defending their religion from an imagined threat.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #252
    Educator Grendel's Avatar
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    We have classes now, usually in middle school that study the religions of the world
    And that's where the 10 commandments belong.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    any excuse to diminish them, mock them, keep them from sight, is their goal.
    You ought to stop making up goals and attributing them to people. We've told you what our goals are: Protect religious liberty.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    conservatives know better but allow themselves to be cowed under by these liberal bullies.
    If conservatives weren't ruled by fear like this, they'd be able to calm down and thing things through instead of constantly throwing out knee-jerk, self-destructive, emotional responses. Honestly, thinknig it through, the school board should have known that wasting money on a pointless suit like this isn't what they're supposed to be doing. They put these up knowing good and well that they'd eventually have to take them down, but only after a very costly legal ordeal. They should have spend the money on books and teachers and equipment, not on this garbage, but they were so afraid of looking weak that they took the most self-destructive route. Now the budget will be spent on this instead of educating the kids. Stupid, knee-jerk, right wing garbage.

    Well, I guess there was a little real life education the kids can take from this: Don't do that.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  3. #253
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Here's a little recap....


    Ever since the lawsuit was filed in September amid heated community reaction, school officials have said the display is not religious because it also includes historical documents such as the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence.

    "If indeed this issue is not about God, why wouldn't it make sense for Giles County to say, 'Let's go back and just post the bottom six?'" Urbanski asked during a motions hearing in U.S. District Court in Roanoke. "But if it's really about God, then they wouldn't be willing to do that."

    After delaying a ruling on the lawsuit, Urbanski directed attorneys on both sides to meet with Magistrate Judge Robert Ballou, who will lead mediation sessions in the coming weeks....

    After delaying a ruling on the lawsuit, Urbanski directed attorneys on both sides to meet with Magistrate Judge Robert Ballou, who will lead mediation sessions in the coming weeks.

    If those discussions do not produce a settlement, Urbanski must decide whether the school board had religious intentions when it voted 3-2 last June to put the commandments back up after angry public reaction to their earlier removal....
    Cut Ten Commandments down to 6? - Roanoke.com
    If this case fails in mediation and goes to trial, a judge will decide whether or not the school boards intention in hanging the TC was religious or historical. I think the school board has a weak case. They voted 3-2 to put up the Ten Commandments and have taken it down and put it back 5x before finally surrounding it with historical documents. So if the school board doesn't accept the mediation offer to edit the ten commandments down to six, then that too will help prove they intended to hang a religious document. The school board is in a quite pickle because if they lose the case they will have to pay for all of ACLU"s and the plaintiffs court costs which could be well over 500K....of local taxpayers money.

  4. #254
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, I don't agree with many of those, particularly the valedictorian speech one, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with allowing this random poster to stay up just because the community Christians feel they are being persecuted and should be allowed to put up random religious sayings simply because they honestly believe people should have to believe in them.
    No one can force a belief in true reality. My understanding is that Christians don't post things to force you to believe anything that you will not accept. It is merely a profession of what they believe. You are more than free to say "that's great....for you"...

    I don't for one minute believe that this banner was up for a student history or religious studies class. This just doesn't fit with the situation. I'd be fine with it if we were talking about a situation where it was part of some religious studies thing or history of law thing, but it wasn't. It still isn't. The only reason they put up the rest is because they were advised to do so by legal counsel. That is just wrong because it shows their intention had nothing to do with actually teaching what public schools are supposed to teach and everything to do with defending their religion from an imagined threat.
    Imagined? Take a good look at the billboards the next time you go on vacation, or drive around town...Chances are that you will see an Atheist ad somewhere along the way. You got that doofus in CA going after the cross memorial to vets in SD because HE'S offended....plus any lawsuit he can file, he does, from taking God off the money, eliminating God from the pledge. Hell, you have some posters in this very forum site that can't even bring themselves to type the word God....No threat? Shria law in places, a Justice on the SCOTUS that thinks that we should be looking to foreign law instead of our own constitution to decide cases, No threat?

    We have these same middle school teachers in instances that will scream bloody murder if OMG they see a poster of the commandments, but plaster their classroom cork board with images of Che, and unattributed quotes of Marxists, and Communists, and teach our 12 year olds how to put a condom on a cucumber....No threat?


    Really?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Well, I guess there was a little real life education the kids can take from this: Don't do that.
    Kids are smarter than you give them credit for, they see what is going on here. Actually there was a great education in this, and that is believe what you want kiddies, just keep your mouth shut tight, because you may offend the extreme minority.

    Great.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #256
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Students are forced to go to school and if religious influence is plastered all over the walls and/or taught in the classroom, then that is forced indoctrination.
    Exaggerate much. It is not plastered ALL OVER THE WALLS and it is not being taught in the classroom. Try sticking with the facts of this particular case.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  7. #257
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No one can force a belief in true reality. My understanding is that Christians don't post things to force you to believe anything that you will not accept. It is merely a profession of what they believe. You are more than free to say "that's great....for you"...
    Of course you can't force beliefs on people. But there are some Christians (and this isn't just limited to Christians, but that is who we are talking about here) who do believe that if they talk about it enough or people see it enough, they will turn to Christianity. This is why religious posters or the like do not belong in school. It is like an advertisement for Christianity in the school. It is wrong. Leave your religious beliefs out of school, at least when it can be perceived as something that is a belief of the school and not just individual students or even individual teachers.

    This is how I see it, religious posters in school can be in students' lockers, on their personal items (as allowed by school rules), in teachers' or school admins private offices, or in anyone's private stuff. They can even go up, as a part of many different ones, in religious studies classes or as temporary history teachings. But when they appear to be rules that the school wants students to follow, whether officially in place or not, they are going too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Imagined? Take a good look at the billboards the next time you go on vacation, or drive around town...Chances are that you will see an Atheist ad somewhere along the way. You got that doofus in CA going after the cross memorial to vets in SD because HE'S offended....plus any lawsuit he can file, he does, from taking God off the money, eliminating God from the pledge. Hell, you have some posters in this very forum site that can't even bring themselves to type the word God....No threat? Shria law in places, a Justice on the SCOTUS that thinks that we should be looking to foreign law instead of our own constitution to decide cases, No threat?

    We have these same middle school teachers in instances that will scream bloody murder if OMG they see a poster of the commandments, but plaster their classroom cork board with images of Che, and unattributed quotes of Marxists, and Communists, and teach our 12 year olds how to put a condom on a cucumber....No threat
    I have seen way more religious billboards than I have ever seen atheists ones. In fact, I can't recall having ever seen an atheist billboard.

    Where is sharia law in place in the US? Do you have any proof of this? If it is true, has anyone fought it? We are America. I don't approve of any religious laws being put into place.

    If you think something isn't fair, fight it. If you want quotes of Jesus or even from the Bible, next to those of Marxists or communists to counter, push for those. I have no issue with that and will back such a thing (provided we aren't actually talking about a teacher or admin's office).

    And 12 year olds need to know how to put on a condom, whether you like it or not. That isn't a threat to Christianity or any other religion. It is a threat to ignorance and rising teen pregnancy rates.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Educator Grendel's Avatar
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    Exaggerate much. It is not plastered ALL OVER THE WALLS and it is not being taught in the classroom. Try sticking with the facts of this particular case.
    Doesn't matter. The principle is the same: The government's job is not religious indoctrination, education, or proselyting. Do you want them teaching your kids Islam or Wicca, as long as they only do it a little bit?
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  9. #259
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    Exaggerate much. It is not plastered ALL OVER THE WALLS and it is not being taught in the classroom. Try sticking with the facts of this particular case.
    The Narrows HS school board voted 3-2 to put up the ten commandments. Then after protests they took it down and after more protests they put it back up and they did this over 5x. That qualifies as "plastered all over the walls". Then they tried to hide it among other historical documents near the schools entrance and thats when they finally got sued by an anonymous student(s).

    Hanging the Ten Commandments on public school property is the first step toward teaching creationism in the classroom. Give em an inch and they'll take a mile. There's plenty of precedence for cases such as this.

  10. #260
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Why not just get rid of them completely and follow the law?
    Maybe because they are the law, or, at least, they cover some of the biggies? In any case, on those occasions when the Supreme Court rules against the public posting of the Ten Commandments, Moses will be staring (crying?) down upon the Court from his post on the courtroom wall (along with Muhammad and sixteen other lawgivers), holding his tablets:

    Moses (c. 1300s B.C.) Prophet, lawgiver, and judge of the Israelites. Mosaic Law is based on the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament. Moses is depicted in the frieze holding two overlapping tablets, written in Hebrew, representing the Ten Commandments. Partially visible from behind Moses’ beard are Commandments six through ten.


    http://www.supremecourt.gov/about/north&southwalls.pdf
    Нава́льный 2018

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