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Thread: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Sounds like an ex post facto defence to me. Every single time the supporters of these religious artifacts are allowed to speak, we hear the same thing - it's part of our "Judeo-Christian heritage". The more nuanced defence is the "cultural" one which attempts to place such blatantly religious displays into a more general societal definition but really for the overwhelming majority of the defenders of Ten Commandment displays it is the religious purpose that they support.
    Of course - it's *such* a part of our judeo-christian heritage that they put god in the constitution to seal the deal!

    Oh wait . . . No they didn't!
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Sounds like an ex post facto defence to me. Every single time the supporters of these religious artifacts are allowed to speak, we hear the same thing - it's part of our "Judeo-Christian heritage". The more nuanced defence is the "cultural" one which attempts to place such blatantly religious displays into a more general societal definition but really for the overwhelming majority of the defenders of Ten Commandment displays it is the religious purpose that they support.
    If you don't like religious posters in public schools, don't post them in public schools.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If you don't like religious posters in public schools, don't post them in public schools.
    I'm not.

    My side is not - well, except for the satirical ones like the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Just Average Bob.

    and a poster like the following is not religious but I'm very sure that no school district in a red state would allow a student to post it

    528964_377706295612872_100001205132417_1058631_208588970_n-300x225.jpg
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    I'm not.

    My side is not - well, except for the satirical ones like the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Just Average Bob.

    and a poster like the following is not religious but I'm very sure that no school district in a red state would allow a student to post it

    528964_377706295612872_100001205132417_1058631_208588970_n-300x225.jpg
    If the poster said "reason is a virtue" it would be welcomed. But that's not what the poster says. A struck-though 'faith' betrays the trolling anti-theist nature.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If the poster said "reason is a virtue" it would be welcomed. But that's not what the poster says. A struck-though 'faith' betrays the trolling anti-theist nature.
    So what was the intent of posting the religious poster in a public funded school if not trolling non-christians?

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Sounds like an ex post facto defence to me. Every single time the supporters of these religious artifacts are allowed to speak, we hear the same thing - it's part of our "Judeo-Christian heritage". The more nuanced defence is the "cultural" one which attempts to place such blatantly religious displays into a more general societal definition but really for the overwhelming majority of the defenders of Ten Commandment displays it is the religious purpose that they support.
    It occurs to me now, to remember that when I was in elementary school, in Santa Barbara, we were taught about the history of the area. In particular, I learned a fair amount about Friar Junípero Serra, and about the important role that he played in settling much of that part of California. He was responsible for the series of Catholic Mission buildings that were built across that part of the area in the 18th century. He was, of course, a religious man, and much of what he did had to do with spreading the Catholic faith. One cannot adequately learn about this part of California's history, without a detailed coverage of the religious aspects thereof.

    I suppose that in the modern climate, with religion being treated as such a taboo subject in public schools, that many of today's schoolchildren from my home area are not being appropriately taught about the history of that area.
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    So what was the intent of posting the religious poster in a public funded school if not trolling non-christians?
    Ah so atheism is a religion for you to then assume the premise in your post that an atheist poster is equal to a religious poster?

    A *real* atheist poster wouldn't address religion at all, thus a-theism. I'm sure that was not the only poster in that hall, and every poster which did not regard religion in anyway whatsoever was, by definition, atheist. Every textbook, for example, is atheist.

    All we want is equal representation. 1 religious poster among all the other texts on that school property which were by nature a-theist.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Ah so atheism is a religion for you to then assume the premise in your post that an atheist poster is equal to a religious poster?
    What are you trying to say? FYI, a non Christian can still believe in God. Jews for instance.

    A *real* atheist poster wouldn't address religion at all, thus a-theism. I'm sure that was not the only poster in that hall, and every poster which did not regard religion in anyway whatsoever was, by definition, atheist. Every textbook, for example, is atheist.

    All we want is equal representation. 1 religious poster among all the other texts on that school property which were by nature a-theist.
    No, that logic doesn't work because A.) not all non-christians are atheists. B) just because a public school doesn't have christian symbols doesn't mean that it is atheist. If anything a public school is secular because it is neither for or against religion. It's simply "separate". C) if religion wants "equal representation" then let it pay taxes.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    What are you trying to say?
    That you're framing atheism as a religion, which debases you're entire argument. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    FYI, a non Christian can still believe in God. Jews for instance.



    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    No, that logic doesn't work because A.) not all non-christians are atheists. B) just because a public school doesn't have christian symbols doesn't mean that it is atheist. If anything a public school is secular because it is neither for or against religion. It's simply "separate". C) if religion wants "equal representation" then let it pay taxes.
    Lots of religious folks pay taxes, money which then funds the schools we then work at and/or send our children to. We pied for it, so if we want to display a cultural vestiges of the Protestant Ethic which got us the money paying the teacher's over-inflated union salleries, then we're entitled.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-14-12 at 06:58 AM.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Jerry-
    Perhaps you will understand it better to call atheism a philosophy, not a religion. Framing a philosophic debate in religious trappings is skewing the discussion. I don't see a fish with feet on it as trolling, perhaps like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder?

    The 'Protestant Ethic' as you call it would come as a bit of a slap in the face of every other hard working faith. True some Americans, mostly surprise, surprise the protestants, hold the phrase up as distinctly American little knowing at the time of it's coining it wasn't a compliment.

    Bob-
    Please don't confuse the teaching of religious mythology with the historical record. To my mind the early settlements in California are historic, the 10 Commandments religious myth. Would the same early settlement lessons include the enslavement and later extinction of most Californian tribes? Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, brought Gawd and Death in equal measure to the 'empty lands' Gawd's Manifest Destiny held open for our nation.

    To be fair and even handed the class should include ALL history, not just the parts that bring a warm fuzzy to some.

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