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Thread: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    You know that might be why I wrote "and also about Thomas Jefferson's suitability for the Presidency" It was meant to indicate two separate subjects, the way I phrased it, probably should have been separate sentences for clarity.
    so you write about his suitabilty for someone with little to no involment in the constitution being acceptable as written by a priest,seems you have a certain hatred for the constitution
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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    the religion portion was made because in nearly every country priorto the us,either the govt ran the church,or the church ran the govt.look at the middle ages,the catholic church had more power than kings did,all the church had todo was excommunicate a king and no one would obey thatking.

    the founding fathers dabbled with the idea of abolishing religion,and came to the conclusion that the cure was worse than the disease,as freedom of religion was required for a free state,despite the fact religion and other factors created an obstacle.the federalist papers refers to religions as factions,as groups them with other factions.

    if people read the federalist papers no.10 they would get a better understanding of the first amendment and the speration between church and government.
    I am a little unclear of your potion on religion and the Government at this point honestly. But I am really happy that you brought up federalist papers no.10. Since I do assert that factions are the main problem with the country through out its history. Which is why I am an Independent voter I refuse to join a faction since that is what I am against. I happen to agree that religions are factions but I do not think that religions should be outlawed just not allowed to influence the Government. I feel the same way about political parties, that no political party should be outlawed out right just that they should not be in the Government just the same as religions. But most people do not understand the reasoning and I always point them to the early writings of George Washington and James Madison. the original intention was that the US was to be factionalless in effect no political parties. But soon that changed as factions started forming. Until today the Government has become a quagmire of misrepresentation. When one party has more party those not in that party are forced to go along with them. It is that disenfranchised relationship that causes most of the conflict between the Left and the Right. The practice of sticking to the other side while in office does not work.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    so you write about his suitabilty for someone with little to no involment in the constitution being acceptable as written by a priest,seems you have a certain hatred for the constitution
    I do not understand what you are trying to say.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I liked it better when religion was a more personal thing. Between someone and their Gawd, not something worn like a flag lapel pin.

    I could do without all 10 and just go by the Golden Rule.

    As far as 'needing' the commandments... we have laws that say the same thing with penalties. like grown ups...
    having religious symbols on a person does not violate the first amendment.however as you pointed out the ten commandments.

    our laws already follow some of them,but also the laws by every civilized country in the world despite religion.that however since it is a government building not a person or a group does not fall under protection of the first amendment.

    however an individual praying in school would be protected under the first amendment,as it does not allow the infringment upon practicing a religion,and it does not say that religion cannot be practiced in a government building,but says the government has no right to be involved in religion,one way or another.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    I do not understand what you are trying to say.
    jefferson had nearly zero involvement in the constitution,he was ambassador to france during its creation,he would be more an autority on the declaration of independance.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    jefferson had nearly zero involvement in the constitution,he was ambassador to france during its creation,he would be more an autority on the declaration of independance.
    For some reason the Library of Congress disagrees with you
    ESTABLISHING A FEDERAL REPUBLIC
    Although Thomas Jefferson was in France serving as United States minister when the Federal Constitution was written in 1787, he was able to influence the development of the federal government through his correspondence. Later his actions as the first secretary of state, vice president, leader of the first political opposition party, and third president of the United States were crucial in shaping the look of the nation's capital and defining the powers of the Constitution and the nature of the emerging republic.

    MY point however had to do with the claim made by the Reverend Willson that Jefferson was unsuitable for the Presidency because he - Thomas Jefferson - was not a Christian - which you would have read if you had bothered to click thru and read the sermon.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    So when you said "Enlightenment values, not Judeo-Christian principle", you actually meant the Age of Enlightenment values? How does that change the meaning of the word?

    And do you understand the values of that period? How did those values differ from the founders of the United States?.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    jefferson had nearly zero involvement in the constitution,he was ambassador to france during its creation,he would be more an autority on the declaration of independance.
    Thats is not accurate. Here is officially what historians say on the matter.

    Establishing a Federal Republic - Thomas Jefferson (Library of Congress Exhibition) Although Thomas Jefferson was in France serving as United States minister when the Federal Constitution was written in 1787, he was able to influence the development of the federal government through his correspondence. Later his actions as the first secretary of state, vice president, leader of the first political opposition party, and third president of the United States were crucial in shaping the look of the nation's capital and defining the powers of the Constitution and the nature of the emerging republic.

    Jefferson played a major role in the planning, design, and construction of a national capitol and the federal district. In the various public offices he held, Jefferson sought to establish a federal government of limited powers. In the 1800 presidential election, Jefferson and Aaron Burr deadlocked, creating a constitutional crisis. However, once Jefferson received sufficient votes in the electoral college, he and the defeated incumbent, John Adams, established the principle that power would be passed peacefully from losers to victors in presidential elections. Jefferson called his election triumph "the second American Revolution."

    While president, Jefferson's principles were tested in many ways. For example, in order to purchase the Louisiana Territory from France he was willing to expand his narrow interpretation of the Constitution. But Jefferson stood firm in ending the importation of slaves and maintaining his view of the separation of church and state. In the end, Jefferson completed two full and eventful terms as president. He also paved the way for James Madison and James Monroe, his political protégés, to succeed him in the presidency.

    [...]Jefferson objects to absence
    of Bill of Rights

    Thomas Jefferson's December 20, 1787, letter to James Madison contains objections to key parts of the new Federal Constitution. Primarily, Jefferson noted the absence of a bill of rights and the failure to provide for rotation in office or term limits, particularly for the chief executive. During the writing and ratification of the constitution, in an effort to influence the formation of the new governmental structure, Jefferson wrote many similar letters to friends and political acquaintances in America.

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And do you have any idea what inspired those laws you now enjoy?
    Um, the Magna Carta, John Locke, Polybius, and Montesquieuand? Oh and habeus corpus (1679) and the Petition of Right (1628), the Bill of Rights (1689), and the Act of Settlement (1701)?

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    Re: Cut Ten Commandments down to 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Thats is not accurate. Here is officially what historians say on the matter.
    his ideas and sayings were used,but he didnt participate actively in it,and he himself said such.

    he wasnt ignorant to the constitution,but has said many times he is not an authority of the constitution for such reasons.


    this is stupid because the scotus still uses him today as reference and ignores the person whoactually wrote the first amendment.to be true it was impsossible to be active in the constitution as word by sea took six months then,unless the constitution took 60 years,it was impossible for him tobe active,or an authority on the constitution.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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