Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

Arbo said:

So there is an outcry due to the results in NC, people are hammering Obama to take a position instead of his weak 'evolving' BS, he is taking hits on the campaign trail and needs to do something that he thinks might help out... and you think this is his actually giving a crap about SSM? You think he actually will act on it when he never has in the past?

Silly stuff there.

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How so, please explain?

He did the heroic thing. Instead of waiting for SCOTUS to toss out all the anti-gay state laws and tell people to stop being homophobes, he told half the country, (the tolerant true American-half) "I am with you. Follow me and we'll win day."

Let the shaming begin.

Homophobes and bigots have been put on notice: Let go of your fear or prejudices about gays, or be shamed for your beliefs. You're just like WBC--ugly, intolerant, bigots.

The most powerful man in the world just said it's okay for gays to marry. If you don't understand the weight that carries -- then IMO, you're not American.

johnny_rebson said:

I'm sure he did this only after seeing polls which backed up his new position.

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Really, where does Romney stand on the issue? From a post I made earlier:

So, if Obama has "flip floped" on the issue, Mitt Romney has as well since he once supported equality.

Mitt Romney seeking the US Senate seat (against Ted Kennedy) in 1994:

To the Members of the Log Cabin Club of Massachusetts:
I am writing to thank the Log Cabin Club of Massachusetts for the advice and support you have given me during my campaign for the US Senate and to seek the Club's formal endorsement of my election. The Log Cabin Club has played a vital role in reinvigorating the Republican Party in Massachusetts and your endorsement is important to me because it will provide further confirmation that my campaign and approach to government is consistent with the values and vision of government we share.

I am pleased to have had an opportunity to talk with you and to meet many of you personally during your September meeting. I learned a great deal from those discussions and many thoughtful questions you posed. As a result of our discussions and other interactions with gay and lesbian voters across the state, I am more convinced than ever before that as we seek to establish full equality for America's gay and lesbian citizens, I will provide more effective leadership than my opponent.

I am not unaware of my opponents considerable record in the area of civil rights, or the commitment of Massachusetts voters to the principle of equality for all Americans. For some voters it might be enough for me to simply match my opponent's record in this area. But I believe we can and must do better. If we are to achieve the goals we share, we must make equality for gays and lesbians a mainstream concern. My opponent cannot do this. I can and will.

We have discussed a number of important issues such as the Federal Employee Nondiscrimination Act (ENDA), which I have agreed to co-sponsor, and if possible broaden to include housing and credit, and the bill to create a federal panel to find ways to reduce gay and lesbian youth suicide, which I also support. One issue I want to clarify concerns President Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue" military policy. I believe that the Clinton compromise was a step in the right direction. I am also convinced that it is the first of a number of steps that will ultimately lead to gays and lesbians being able to serve openly and honestly in our nation's military. That goal will only be reached when preventing discrimination against gays and lesbians is a mainstream concern, which is a goal we share.

As we begin the final phase of this campaign, I need your support more than ever. By working together, we will achieve the goals we share for Massachusetts and our nation.

Sincerely,

W. Mitt Romney

Mitt Romney - Gay Marriage

While I think Obama does many of the things he does for political reasons, I do not think this is one of those. Obama knows he will most likely lose more votes than he will gain by this announcement. He would have lost nothing by waiting until after the election to make it. Who is going to vote for him now who wasn’t going to vote for him already? But I can think of plenty of religious Democrats who will now decide not to vote at all. I think this is one of those rare occasions where his ethics trumped his politics.

hazlnut said:

How so, please explain?

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After reading the rest of your message, it is clear an explanation would be futile.

I support SSM btw, but what Obama did was just a campaign tactic brought on by recent events. If he continues the path he has long been on, he will do NOTHING to actually help SSM become a reality across the whole nation.

I was sincerely touched today by what Obama did. This very well could lose him the election. Whenever a high profile politician changes their view on a major social issue it leaves them very vulnerable. Watching this man reconcile his religious views with his personal experience is an inspiration to me. This had nothing to do with tolerance, civil rights, or religious freedom. This was a man who opened his heart to gay and lesbian Americcns and saw us for what we are...people. I may disagree with many of his positions but for his words today I am eternally grateful.

Sarcogito said:

While I think Obama does many of the things he does for political reasons, I do not think this is one of those. Obama knows he will most likely lose more votes than he will gain by this announcement. He would have lost nothing by waiting until after the election to make it. Who is going to vote for him now who wasn’t going to vote for him already? But I can think of plenty of religious Democrats who will now decide not to vote at all. I think this is one of those rare occasions where his ethics trumped his politics.

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Great points.

But I also think this bold move on his part restores faith in many that he is an exceptional individual deserving of a second term-- in other words, people who voted for Obama but might have stayed home in the election were tomorrow -- because of what our leader did today, those people will wait in 3 hour line to vote for him.

Navy Pride: It´s as if it´s alright to call millions of blacks and hispanics single issue voters while white people somehow care more about other things like the economy, their families and whatever conservative dream they can masturbate to.

Arbo said:

So there is an outcry due to the results in NC, people are hammering Obama to take a position instead of his weak 'evolving' BS, he is taking hits on the campaign trail and needs to do something that he thinks might help out... and you think this is his actually giving a crap about SSM? You think he actually will act on it when he never has in the past? Silly stuff there.

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He already has acted on it........

"...Seeking a fast track for two test cases on the constitutionality of the federal law barring benefits for legally married same-sex couples, the Obama Administration this week asked the Ninth Circuit Court to go directly into review before a full 11-judge bench instead of a three-judge panel. Besides seeking such en banc review, the government urged the Court to put the issue on an expedited schedule with two pending cases joined. The government’s filing Monday on the appeals, both titled Golinski v. Office of Personnel Management (Circuit dockets 12-15388 and 12-15409), is here. At issue is the Defense of Marriage Act....

Ultimately, either the Proposition 8 case or one of the DOMA challenge cases is expected to reach the Supreme Court, for a major test on the constitutionality of laws against same-sex marriage. Neither is likely to reach the Court for final action during the current Court Term, however.
Fast-track plea on gay marriage : SCOTUSblog

Of course, the court is no hurry.....
One gay marriage case slowing : SCOTUSblog

I think Obama might have been hoping the court would have decided the constitutionality of the DOMA by now.

Moot said:

I think Obama is well aware how the black community feels about SSM and he's always said he was for "civil unions" which was a way to say he believed that Gays deserved civil rights protection like everyone else and to avoid conflicting with his own religious belief about it. Because I don't think he really believes that it is the governments business to say who a person can or can't marry because that would be like the government dictating who you can love. It would probably be against the constitution as well since the states are passing laws based on religious belief in order to deny equality to a minority group of citizens. I think that is why Obama kept saying his opinion was "evolving" as he waited to see how the NC election turned out. Now he knows.

But I really don't know why the president needs to take a stand on this issue at all unless people want the federal government to get involved in their personal choices. Now who in their right mind would want that?

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Biden's comment came before NC. The response was angry and frustration from many who support SSM. Obama makes his statement the following day. It bookends the NC vote. Obama has solidified those who were angry to his camp. It was a smart political move. Those that voted for Amendment 1 in NC are unlikely to vote for Obama anyway. Those that have been voting against SSM in other states may not be Obama supporters of Obama either. He has incited now those that may be on the fence or those who do not vote but support SSM. I don't see how his announcement hurts him in any way.

Arbo said:

After reading the rest of your message, it is clear an explanation would be futile.

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So, you were just trolling / baiting?

Thanks, I'll report the post.

Unless you care to clarify.

I support SSM btw, but what Obama did was just a campaign tactic brought on by recent events. If he continues the path he has long been on, he will do NOTHING to actually help SSM become a reality across the whole nation.

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He has just told our entire nation, that if you are a person on-the-fence about gay marriage to not be afraid to support it vocally.

The support for marriage equality will grow exponentially. By election time, people will see any anti-gay person as version of the WBC.

katiegrrl0 said:

Biden's comment came before NC. The response was angry and frustration from many who support SSM. Obama makes his statement the following day. It bookends the NC vote. Obama has solidified those who were angry to his camp. It was a smart political move. Those that voted for Amendment 1 in NC are unlikely to vote for Obama anyway. Those that have been voting against SSM in other states may not be Obama supporters of Obama either. He has incited now those that may be on the fence or those who do not vote but support SSM. I don't see how his announcement hurts him in any way.

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I think the religious black community in NC voted over whelmingly for the ban on SSM, just as they did for Prop 8 in California. But I'm not sure if that will hurt Obama in the election. They've certainly had other issues with Obama as well. But at the end of day, I think they will still overwhelmingly vote for him in November. That is unless they don't have a voter ID!!!!

Moot said:

He already has acted on it........

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No, he told the courts to act on it. And doesn't he already have enough awaiting results from the courts that could crush him? Why would he push for more possible outcomes that may not go his way?

If he want's to take action, then how about he put forth an 'equality in marriage' amendment proposal and start stumping for it?

Arbo said:

No, he told the courts to act on it. And doesn't he already have enough awaiting results from the courts that could crush him? Why would he push for more possible outcomes that may not go his way?

If he want's to take action, then how about he put forth an 'equality in marriage' amendment proposal and start stumping for it?

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There's already a senate bill to overturn DOMA.

The teabaggers (fiscal conservatives-- yeah right) in the House won't touch it.

It was a bold move to have the justice department stop defending DOMA -- brilliant end run around a broken congress.

Arbo said:

No, he told the courts to act on it.

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Thats because we are a nation of laws.

And doesn't he already have enough awaiting results from the courts that could crush him? Why would he push for more possible outcomes that may not go his way?

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He's got plenty on his plate, thats for sure.

If he want's to take action, then how about he put forth an 'equality in marriage' amendment proposal and start stumping for it?

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But if he did that then wouldn't he be accused of politicizing his presidential authority? Anyway, as president he is obligated to defend the laws and that means he has to defend the DOMA. Which is probably why his administration asked the courts to fast track those cases involving the constitutionality of DOMA.

Moot said:

But if he did that then wouldn't he be accused of politicizing his presidential authority?

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If he did that then I might considering him a leader, rather than yet another worthless president.

Anyway, as president he is obligated to defend the laws and that means he has to defend the DOMA.

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So since he said he was not going to enforce DOMA, does that mean he has moved against his obligations, and could be sighted in some way for dereliction of duty?

Arbo said:

So since he said he was not going to enforce DOMA, does that mean he has moved against his obligations, and could be sighted in some way for dereliction of duty?

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Actually I think the two of you have it mixed up. Obama has said he nor his administration is going to defend DOMA. And this is a precedent that has been done by several past Presidents for laws that they do not agree with, generally when they were passed by earlier administrations and were getting challenged.

DOMA is still being enforced. Same sex couples do not get any of the federal benefits of marriage even if married in those states that have legalized it.

Moot said:

I think the religious black community in NC voted over whelmingly for the ban on SSM, just as they did for Prop 8 in California. But I'm not sure if that will hurt Obama in the election. They've certainly had other issues with Obama as well. But at the end of day, I think they will still overwhelmingly vote for him in November. That is unless they don't have a voter ID!!!!

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I think the black community will vote for him in the general election. They won't vote for the R's in the numbers they need to pick up the slack. This was a good move by Obama.

Taylor said:

It would seem the opposite is true - government is only involved in marriages that it recognizes. People for same sex marriage are asking for more government involvement - mainly government protections.

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I strongly disagree. Marriage, and who or who does not get married, is none of the government's damn business.

hazlnut said:

Great points.

But I also think this bold move on his part restores faith in many that he is an exceptional individual deserving of a second term-- in other words, people who voted for Obama but might have stayed home in the election were tomorrow -- because of what our leader did today, those people will wait in 3 hour line to vote for him.

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Great point as well.

Arbo said:

If he did that then I might considering him a leader, rather than yet another worthless president.

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But thats what conservatives want is to quagmire him in one of their social wedge issues. I think he's too smart for that. But we'll see.

So since he said he was not going to enforce DOMA, does that mean he has moved against his obligations, and could be sighted in some way for dereliction of duty?

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The Obama administration may have stopped defending DOMA, but it is still enforcing it.....



"...The Obama Administration last year gave up its defense in court of DOMA’s ban, arguing that it cannot pass a more rigorous test of constitutionality. It has continued to enforce the provision while the court cases proceed, however. In the meantime, the legal defense of DOMA has been taken over by lawyers representing the Republican leadership of the House of Representatives. That GOP group filed one of the appeals in the Ninth Circuit, and is involved in the First Circuit case, as well as in others around the country. The government filed the other appeal, for technical procedural reasons to assure that there would be a genuine case...."
Fast-track plea on gay marriage : SCOTUSblog

roguenuke said:

Actually I think the two of you have it mixed up. Obama has said he nor his administration is going to defend DOMA. And this is a precedent that has been done by several past Presidents for laws that they do not agree with, generally when they were passed by earlier administrations and were getting challenged.

DOMA is still being enforced. Same sex couples do not get any of the federal benefits of marriage even if married in those states that have legalized it.

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Yeah, I should have said "enforced" instead of "defend" oops.

Well I find the move a tad odd and obviously, ABC News and the White House set this up. cp may have a point that this is to get more left donors but honestly, the guy already has far more money than Romney in campaign dollars. I think it is more about him trying to "prove" he can answer "tough" questions directly. To me, this is a non-issue and I am a bit disappointed Obama brought it up right now.

JohnWOlin said:

Well I find the move a tad odd and obviously, ABC News and the White House set this up. cp may have a point that this is to get more left donors but honestly, the guy already has far more money than Romney in campaign dollars. I think it is more about him trying to "prove" he can answer "tough" questions directly. To me, this is a non-issue and I am a bit disappointed Obama brought it up right now.

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Did he bring it up? Why would he bring it up and not have difinitive answer? That doesnt make sense.

About time.

Moot said:

Did he bring it up? Why would he bring it up and not have difinitive answer? That doesnt make sense.

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As I theorized before, this was setup with ABC for him to come out and say this. I am disappointed he is using this to distract people from real issues such as our economy, jobs, infrastructure, the budget, etc.