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Thread: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    In answer to the question about driver's license recognition:
    It is called the Full Faith and Credit ClauseArticle IV, Section 1, of the U.S. Constitution— and it provides that the various states must recognize legislative acts, public records, and judicial decisions of the other states within the United States.

    The Full Faith and Credit Clause was the primary reason for the passage of the Defense of Marriage Act. DOMA gave each state the right to refuse recognition of a legal same sex marriage performed in another state. It will form the basis of the eventual SCOTUS challenge to anti-same sex marriage. IMO
    This didn't really satisfy my question.

    Here is a link showing how radically different drivers license laws are from one state to the next.

    U.S. GDL laws: Intermediate & unrestricted stage

    If I get a license at age 16 in Minnesota, and move to Iowa - am I still legally allowed to drive with no restrictions? I know that you are required to get a new license, so why can't states require married couples get a new license in their state as well?

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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Don't be so sure -- it very well could. Courage, honestly and integrity are some of the most powerful forces in the universe. People are draw to a courageous leader.

    Even the most anti-gay types are aware of the risk he took. Some have tried to spin it as a 'political' move. Given the sincerity of his comments yesterday (especially about Biden); I think the boldness may draw more people in.

    Well, there is the "Hope" we heard about.....And I think it will be clear that in Nov. the American people will bring about a "Change" from Obama.


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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, there is the "Hope" we heard about.....And I think it will be clear that in Nov. the American people will bring about a "Change" from Obama.


    j-mac
    Yes. America will be one step closer to fulfilling its promise of "Freedom and Justice for ALL....not just for some".
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    This didn't really satisfy my question.

    Here is a link showing how radically different drivers license laws are from one state to the next.

    U.S. GDL laws: Intermediate & unrestricted stage

    If I get a license at age 16 in Minnesota, and move to Iowa - am I still legally allowed to drive with no restrictions? I know that you are required to get a new license, so why can't states require married couples get a new license in their state as well?
    Because a marriage license has never really been like a license. It is much more like a contract. Any other type of license is between a single person and the government, a marriage license is much more between the two people, with the government only really giving certain additional things for the two entering into the contract. Any other type of license you can merely put aside or turn in without extra legal paperwork or requirements of the government. Any other license the government can revoke, the marriage "license" is made null and void, like a contract would be, and for the government to do this with a marriage license, it requires proof that some fraud was committed.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 05-10-12 at 03:05 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because a marriage license has never really been like a license. It is much more like a contract. Any other type of license is between a single person and the government, a marriage license is much more between the two people, with the government only really giving certain additional things for the two entering into the contract. Any other type of license you can merely put aside or turn in without extra legal paperwork or requirements of the government. Any other license the government can revoke, the marriage "license" is made null and void, like a contract would be.

    Things like this can not be put into a contract btwn two people:
    3. Child Tax Credit
    Taxpayers meeting income eligibility requirements are entitled to a credit against tax for qualifying children in their households. This provision limits the child tax credit to children who meet the relationship test set fourth in the earned income tax provisions, 32(c)(3)(B). As set forth above, 32 does not include children of a taxpayer’s domestic partner if the children are not related to the taxpayer biologically or through adoption.
    An Overview of Federal Rights and Protections Granted to Married Couples | Resources | Human Rights Campaign

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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because a marriage license has never really been like a license. It is much more like a contract. Any other type of license is between a single person and the government, a marriage license is much more between the two people, with the government only really giving certain additional things for the two entering into the contract. Any other type of license you can merely put aside or turn in without extra legal paperwork or requirements of the government. Any other license the government can revoke, the marriage "license" is made null and void, like a contract would be, and for the government to do this with a marriage license, it requires proof that some fraud was committed.
    the marriage is the contract between two people, but the license (a somewhat new entity invented to prevent interracial unions) is something else entirely.

    Legally speaking, I don't understand why a state couldn't require citizens moving to their state to get a new marriage license just as is done with drivers licenses, while also erecting different regulations pertaining to who is eligible.

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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Things like this can not be put into a contract btwn two people:
    3. Child Tax Credit
    Taxpayers meeting income eligibility requirements are entitled to a credit against tax for qualifying children in their households. This provision limits the child tax credit to children who meet the relationship test set fourth in the earned income tax provisions, 32(c)(3)(B). As set forth above, 32 does not include children of a taxpayer’s domestic partner if the children are not related to the taxpayer biologically or through adoption.
    An Overview of Federal Rights and Protections Granted to Married Couples | Resources | Human Rights Campaign
    Which is true, but that is why it is a government benefit for the contract, not an actual benefit within the contract. I see the marriage license as really being a contract between the two people. The government may force the people to agree on conditions if the two decide to break that contract, but the government isn't really a party in it Heck, the government requires people in other contracts to agree on conditions when they decide to get out of the contract.

    With no-fault divorce, marriage really is just a contract between two people that the government gives benefits for because it wants to encourage that level of commitment. The rights are given as just a part of what legal family get anyway, for the most part.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    the marriage is the contract between two people, but the license (a somewhat new entity invented to prevent interracial unions) is something else entirely.

    Legally speaking, I don't understand why a state couldn't require citizens moving to their state to get a new marriage license just as is done with drivers licenses, while also erecting different regulations pertaining to who is eligible.
    Because the problem is license is the misnomer in this case. It is no more a license than an employment contract is a license to work for that company. You don't need a new employment contract just because the company moves you to a different state.

    It is stupid and a waste of paper, money, and time to require a new marriage <contract> between the same two people just for moving from one state to another. We are the United States of America. Hell, we recognize marriage contracts made in other countries, for the most part.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because the problem is license is the misnomer in this case. It is no more a license than an employment contract is a license to work for that company. You don't need a new employment contract just because the company moves you to a different state.
    no, but if my contract is to cut hair, my license to cut hair in one state isn't valid in the other. the state is going to make me get a new license, while my private contract with the employer for employment remains in tact.

    It is stupid and a waste of paper, money, and time to require a new marriage <contract> between the same two people just for moving from one state to another. We are the United States of America. Hell, we recognize marriage contracts made in other countries, for the most part.
    I agree that the license is a stupid waste of money, but it is an actual thing that exists, and differs wildly from state to state, and appears to be safe from the same types of fears that give us legislation such as DOMA

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    Re: Obama Declares Support For Gay Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Thanks. I took a look at the message and agree that it is somewhat disengenuous and comes across a little hypocritical and too strong. Although I do believe that some parts of the message are valid points. I think this ad was a mistake for the Obama campaign to put out.
    It seems they'd have a much better ad if they had concentrated on those other elements... so as to say "to some, it may seem like I've had the same position as Romney up until recently, but there are in fact longstanding differences. And, while we've both changed our views, we're moving in opposite directions...etc. etc."

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