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Thread: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    It was going to have to come from the EU central bank, which could fund it via bonds...just like we do. Since Greece is on the Euro, they could not raise the funding themselves.
    I see. And who is going to buy those bonds and at what rate and at what cost to the value of the Euro? Plus you seem to be pretending that Greecesw problem is something other than its inability to amke payments on the loans it has already received. You will have to explain to me how it is that the solution for a country unable to pay its debts is to increase its debt burden.
    No, our economy is not an addict, it was a heart attack victim. The stimulus was a shock to keep the heart beating, but the rest of the care needed has been lacking, and we might be getting sick again, the first treatment did not get enough or keep enough employed.
    The recession ended 3 years ago. What you are suggesting is endless stimulus/government spending.


    LOL...yeah, about that inflation....it isn't happening...and borrowing leads to austerity? No, borrowing leads to repayment in the future, where mild inflation causes the past borrowing to decrease in amount on top of the fact that borrowing now has less that zero interests costs.
    Sure, borrowing now has its advantages. The trouble is, rates will not remain this low forever and everything borrowed today has to eventually be rolled over at higher rates. What you are saying is that inflation will helop you cheat your lenders out of recovering the full value of their loans. What you havent taken into consideration is that lenders understand this. That is why rates will rise.

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Come on guys...lets get honest...No one is more against corporate pigs at the trough that lpast...but lets be fair and honest.

    We need an Austerity program...we need "REASONABLE" entitlement reform...and we need the rich to "ACTUALLY" pay something near what they should have been all along and have not.

    What we have instead of "REASON" is this assinine Teaparty far right group of rich brats that think they are entitled to EVERYTHING now instead of most and that they are going to take whats left from a "SMALL" middle class they created out of greed...running to china.
    Corporations put all these americans out of work and not paying taxs all on thier OWN....Id bet if you count the unemployed that total number would pale compared to how many job have been created in china since the first one....THE TEAPARTY and the super conservatives on here refuse to acknowledge that.
    If they wont do all 3 reasonably...Austerity, Entitlement Reform and Rich pay a fair share....then im voting for Whoever says anything I want to hear thats just good for me....like everyone else
    You say that like the left has shown *ANY* inclination to adopt austerity measures or entitlement reform. They spend like drunken sailors and any talk about cutting entitlements is met with wails and gnashing of teeth. Stop pretending it's the Tea Party's fault. Who is in power right now? Who is running up the deficit to unheard of levels?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    After 2-3 years of "austerity" programs, Europeans are starting to look at their economies in a different manner.



    'Somehow', in some mysterious fashion, the "failed" stimulus programs advocated and pushed for by the Administration have kept the US from falling back into recession. Now that the stimulus funding has ended, we are starting to see the economy here beginning to slow. Naturally those of the Austrian school think that this proves their point that government should spend even less.
    Very strange then that Greece went belly-up. For years Greece essentially followed Krugman's ideas (austerity being for suckers) and wound up bankrupt and panhandling in the capitals of Europe.

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Krugman is a liar. I still don't understand why people use him as a reference, especially here. This is not Democratic Underground.

    Actually, Greece didn't do any austerity before they run out of money in 2010. They would love to keep going, but who are going to lend them. Even with plenty of money, Greece would just muddle through and there would be no hope of them paying back. However, Germany has implemented a pretty tough austerity program, and they are not doing badly at all. Ireland was in a much worse situation than Greece, they had a very tough austerity program, and they are doing well.

    There is no connection. The problem is, Greece is like a drug addict. They are addicted on credit. They don't want to reform, and corruption and tax evasion is widespread. EU officals told us first there was no problem in Greece, then that a bailout will solve all problems, then a second bailout, but they won't default, then they defaulted, but pretended it wasn't a default. In return Greece were supposed to do reforms they had no interest in doing. The expectations were way off, and the market is terrified of Greece right now. Would you put money in a Greek bank? Would you lend them money? Would you start up a business? There is no trust. If the EU hadn't sugar-coated the situation, and let Greece find solutions to their problems on their own, then Greece would probably be out of the recession right now.

    The problems in EU is due to lack of trust, and setting wrong expectations. It is not due to austerity.
    And you got your economics degree from where? Because you're going to have to do a LOT more work than this to try to outdo Krugman.

    Greece cooked their books, which is why their problem is by far the worst. But austerity has stalled out their economy entirely. The same thing is happening in Spain, which is the Eurozone's third biggest economy and could be a MASSIVE problem for the world economy if they collapse. The only way out of recession is spending.

    History and present conditions prove that austerity is a failure during a recession.

    Austerity's Greatest Failure - Matthew O'Brien - Business - The Atlantic

    “It took 30 years of frivolous public spending to bring the country to a debt-to-GDP ratio of 120%. Two years of severe austerity brought debt to 168% of GDP. Obviously the medicine didn’t work.”

    (from this article)

    There's ample evidence that austerity is a failure as a policy.

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    And you got your economics degree from where? Because you're going to have to do a LOT more work than this to try to outdo Krugman.

    Greece cooked their books, which is why their problem is by far the worst. But austerity has stalled out their economy entirely. The same thing is happening in Spain, which is the Eurozone's third biggest economy and could be a MASSIVE problem for the world economy if they collapse. The only way out of recession is spending.

    History and present conditions prove that austerity is a failure during a recession.

    Austerity's Greatest Failure - Matthew O'Brien - Business - The Atlantic

    “It took 30 years of frivolous public spending to bring the country to a debt-to-GDP ratio of 120%. Two years of severe austerity brought debt to 168% of GDP. Obviously the medicine didn’t work.”

    (from this article)

    There's ample evidence that austerity is a failure as a policy.
    Greece cooked the books because they were broke, they were not broke because they cooked the books. That's is an inane argument. I understand why your article selected Portugal rather than Greece. Greece would have squarely invalidated his conclusions. The failure was lack of austerity of the parts of successive Greek governments which were more concerned to clinging to power than confronting strong unions and a bloated public sector.

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    I see. And who is going to buy those bonds and at what rate and at what cost to the value of the Euro? Plus you seem to be pretending that Greecesw problem is something other than its inability to amke payments on the loans it has already received. You will have to explain to me how it is that the solution for a country unable to pay its debts is to increase its debt burden.
    The EUCB would have to determine the rate, the world market will decide if the bonds are good or not....free market...that is how it works...right?

    As far as Greece, I think I have already posted the general timeline and what they could do.
    The recession ended 3 years ago. What you are suggesting is endless stimulus/government spending.
    The official NBER recession is over, the effects continue...it is called "job losses", look it up sometime, google it, i'm sure there is something out there about it.


    Sure, borrowing now has its advantages. The trouble is, rates will not remain this low forever and everything borrowed today has to eventually be rolled over at higher rates. What you are saying is that inflation will helop you cheat your lenders out of recovering the full value of their loans. What you havent taken into consideration is that lenders understand this. That is why rates will rise.
    I'm sorry, if you don't know how bonds work, this is pointless to continue, on top of this faked ignorance about continuing recessionary effects.
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Greece cooked their books, which is why their problem is by far the worst. But austerity has stalled out their economy entirely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Greece cooked the books because they were broke, they were not broke because they cooked the books. That's is an inane argument. I understand why your article selected Portugal rather than Greece. Greece would have squarely invalidated his conclusions. The failure was lack of austerity of the parts of successive Greek governments which were more concerned to clinging to power than confronting strong unions and a bloated public sector.
    That is not his argument, you created a straw argument, very poorly at that. Try again.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 05-06-12 at 04:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    this is pointless to continue
    You are right about that at least. I wasnt going to waste my time responding to you but I had some extra time on my hands. My bad.

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post

    Greece cooked their books, which is why their problem is by far the worst.
    It is a very poor argument, but still an argument.

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    Re: Krugman Wishes He Were Wrong Amid EU Austerity Backlash

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Where are you getting that Ireland is "doing well"? By what measure?
    By the measure of the Anglo-American right wing... Ireland was their baby after all.. the Celtic Tiger.... for years the Anglo-American right wing went on and on.. on how the rest of Europe should do like Ireland and that Ireland was the next rising star. Well.. the truth about Ireland is being hidden from people, because it would cause a run on the UK if Ireland went belly up.
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