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Thread: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Then what it says is incorrect. While changing leaders is no guarantee of success, to not change this one is a guarantee of failure.
    Very true.

    The Obama administration can claim anything they want from the Ivory Tower, however "12.5 million people are still unemployed, and a record 88.4 million people are considered "not in the labor force," according to the BLS. Those folks can see unemployment and underemployment from street level. Their view of unemployment and underemployment comes from a how can we survive, will we lose our home, can I feed my kids perspective. The Obama administrations view is from the Ivory Tower and comes from a can I fool enough people into think things are actually better perspective. In December 2008, a year after the recession officially started there were 135,253,000 million people working, that's 3,622,000 less than when the recession started in Dec 2007. Now here we are 3 years and 5 months later and there are 132,967,000 people working. That's 2,286,000 less people working than in Dec 2008. How anyone can say things are getting better I simply don't know, they just aren't getting worse as fast. However what we have is over 8% unemployment for the longest sustained time in the history of this country since the great depression. 19% underemployment (stimulus jobs), near $5 trillion dollars in new debt in less than 4 years, home foreclosures continuing unabated by any Obama plan, gasoline hovering just under $5 a gallon driving up prices of all consumer goods, food prices hitting the stratosphere and over all GDP growth below 2% which means we're losing ground.

    In California the overall unemployment rate is 11.5% and well over 12% in the county I live in. I can see the unemployed from my back yard.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Currently U-6 unemployment is at 14.5%. (Portal Seven | U6 Unemployment Rate) U-6 stayed at 14.5% last month and was at 14.9% in February. So, really there is no actual recovery. The WSJ does a great job of explaining how the unemployment rate dropped (Why Did the Unemployment Rate Drop? - Real Time Economics - WSJ). I think we also need to realize that the government does game the numbers (No Jobs For Americans |) (The January Jobs Are Statistical Artifacts |).
    U-6 has been as high as 17.2%, so it's not really accurate to say that a 14.5% rate means no recovery.

    That said, there's no question but that the unemployment rate is falling in part because of baby boomer retirement and people just giving up, in addition to job growth.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    U-6 has been as high as 17.2%, so it's not really accurate to say that a 14.5% rate means no recovery.

    That said, there's no question but that the unemployment rate is falling in part because of baby boomer retirement and people just giving up, in addition to job growth.
    The question about job growth brings up another question or two ..

    .. Does anyone know how many jobs were added last period and how many jobs were lost last period, so that a net jobs gained/lost figure can be presented?

    Also, does anyone know how many living-wage jobs were added last period and how many living-wage jobs were lost last period, so that a net living-wage jobs gained/lost figure can be presented?
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Bingo! Someone gets it. When I read posts like this one (not picking on a particular, just a representative one)



    It leads me to believe that the right wingers, the ones who say they're for limited government, seem to think that changing the president is going to change things in this country, maybe pare back the size and power of the federal bureaucracy and get some real economic growth going.

    Just how much power do they think resides in the White House, anyway?

    It ain't gonna happen that way, folks. We can elect Romney, and I hope we do. He has some experience getting financially failing institutions back in the black, which just might help a little bit.

    But, don't expect any major changes after the election regardless of the outcome. We'll still have high unemployment, a huge debt, and a dysfunctional Congress.
    One can only surmise that it's the result of a fundamental ignorance of economics. No one disputes that government CAN mess up the economy, e.g. by crowding out investment, pushing interest rates too high, or fueling an asset bubble, but none of those things are happening now. What's happened under Obama is that the Fed has kept interest rates near zero, which helps business and the markets, they've kept inflation, if anything, too low, which helps consumers, they've passed a payroll tax cut to help working people, and they passed a large stimulus bill which primarily helped the states forestall layoffs.

    One can argue that these are bad policies in the long run, due to debt overhang, but you can't realistically argue that these policies have slowed employment growth up until now ... or even that they haven't helped bolster employment growth. If the government had not done these things the current situation would certainly be much worse.
    Last edited by AdamT; 05-04-12 at 03:03 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    One can only surmise that it's the result of a fundamental ignorance of economics. No one disputes that government CAN mess up the economy, e.g. by crowding out investment, pushing interest rates too high, or fueling an asset bubble, but none of those things are happening now. What's happened under Obama is that the Fed has kept interest rates near zero, which helps business and the markets, they've kept inflation, if anything, too low, which helps consumers, they've passed a payroll tax cut to help working people, and they passed a large stimulus bill which primarily helped the states forestall layoffs.

    One can argue that these are bad policies in the long run, due to debt overhang, but you can't realistically argue that these policies have slowed employment growth up until now ... or even that they haven't helped bolster employment growth. If the government had not done these things the current situation would certainly be much worse.

    What you've pointed out is that the government can stabilize a floundering economic environment not actually change it dramatically for the better. Much of that still lies in the hands of investors and consumers who are not getting enough momentum to sustain a solid recovery. That would happen if there were a significant job recovery and reinvesting in American production.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    What you've pointed out is that the government can stabilize a floundering economic environment not actually change it dramatically for the better. Much of that still lies in the hands of investors and consumers who are not getting enough momentum to sustain a solid recovery. That would happen if there were a significant job recovery and reinvesting in American production.
    Wait, you mean to tell me that quadrupling our debt for a handful of failed companies to continue to exist while they continue to cut jobs and their overall growth so that their executives can keep their lifestyles is NOT the way out of this mess?? say it isn't so!

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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    One can only surmise that it's the result of a fundamental ignorance of economics. No one disputes that government CAN mess up the economy, e.g. by crowding out investment, pushing interest rates too high, or fueling an asset bubble, but none of those things are happening now. What's happened under Obama is that the Fed has kept interest rates near zero, which helps business and the markets, they've kept inflation, if anything, too low, which helps consumers, they've passed a payroll tax cut to help working people, and they passed a large stimulus bill which primarily helped the states forestall layoffs.
    That's NOT what it was supposed to be used for. Had Obama told the people that they were going to spend $840 Billion dollars to keep government workers employed, he would have been wearing rotten tomatoes. Here's what he said....

    More than 90 percent of the jobs created by this plan will be in the private sector. They're not going to be make-work jobs, but jobs doing the work that America desperately needs done: jobs rebuilding our crumbling roads and bridges, repairing our dangerously deficient dams and levees so that we don't face another Katrina.

    Transcript: Obama takes questions on economy - CNN.com
    So did Obama lie, make a false statement or a misstatement? Either way it turned out to be patently untrue.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    One can argue that these are bad policies in the long run, due to debt overhang, but you can't realistically argue that these policies have slowed employment growth up until now ... or even that they haven't helped bolster employment growth. If the government had not done these things the current situation would certainly be much worse.
    Can you point to empirical data that prove that as opposed to the economy slowly recovering on it's own?
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by 00timh View Post
    Wait, you mean to tell me that quadrupling our debt for a handful of failed companies to continue to exist while they continue to cut jobs and their overall growth so that their executives can keep their lifestyles is NOT the way out of this mess?? say it isn't so!
    I called my congressman here in CT...he can't believe it either.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It's funny how "Government doesn't create jobs" was the mantra of the right, now it's "Why hasn't the President created any jobs?" It's almost like they hate him for being a Democrat or something...
    I don't really think too many on the right are complaining that the President hasn't created any jobs...rather, I think they wish he would stop TRYING to create jobs. He's just making it worse.
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    re: Only 115,000 jobs added in April; unemployment rate dips to 8.1 percent

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Grim I could understand the attacks on Obama (because the economy is floundering) if not for the fact that the alternative is just old hat trickle down theory which has obviously not worked well for the past couple of decades.

    If Conservatives are going to criticize what Obama you'd better offer an alternative. I think when the debates happen the fact they have no real alternative is going to become apparent to most Americans.
    Republicans HAVE proposed alternatives. But Obama and his buddies won't hold any debates. Why do you think THAT is?
    TANSTAAFL

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