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Thread: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death threats,

  1. #41
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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    As far as economics is concerned, because it is in the United States' economic interest to do so. Given China's comparative advantage in certain areas, American consumers benefit from wider choice and lower prices than would be the case if the U.S. severed all trade with China.

    Moreover, it is in the United States' broader interest to have a constructive relationship with China, recognizing that there are some signficant differences between the two countries. China is a great regional power. It is also a rising or to use Henry Kissinger's more precise terminology, a "returning" power. Attempts at containment would be futile given China's many other international relationships. Attempts at containment would only risk creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of an adversarial and possibly even confrontational relationship. That outcome would be particularly dangerous if China's relative power continues to grow.

    Having said all that, the U.S. should continue to press China for human rights improvements through diplomatic channels and it should also maintain its commitments to its East Asian allies. Ron Paul-style abdication of U.S. alliances should be avoided. While the U.S. cannot reasonably expect China to transform itself into a liberal European or American style democratic republic given China's institutions, history, and culture, it can and should persistently insist on the more modest and attainable goals of China's improving its human rights practices and respecting its neighbors' interests. A constructive bilateral policy coupled with sustained American commitments to its East Asian partners can facilitate those goals. An adversarial policy can thwart those goals.
    Save for the stuff about U.S. alliances, I agree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Things like this make me anti China though. Borrowing money from and doing business with a country that threatens to beat your wife to death if you leave just kind of goes against American values.
    You shouldn't trust our media on China, especially when they don't give you all the details. The death threats did not come from the central government, but the local authorities who Chen has opposed, though the report you cite is perfectly silent on where the threats originated in a typical demonstration of Sinophobic bias. China's central government has an interest in keeping him and his family alive. At this point they also have a strong interest in keeping them free. Not only because anything else would be a blow to the government's reputation, but because there are undoubtedly people in the central government who would prefer it if he had never been detained in the first place. Were you as familiar with the history of this case as I am you would know that this was always about the Linyi authorities going after Chen for him exposing their misdeeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    Does china still have a forced abortion policy...?
    China never had such a policy. It is very much illegal in China. Unfortunately, that kind of critical information tends to get lost in Western media coverage. Go figure. Forced abortion and forced sterilization in China is no different from the same in any other country with an overpopulation problem in that it is a consequence of pressure for officials to meet population quotas. The vast majority who violate the one-child policy just get slapped with a hefty fine, which itself has the consequence that many wealthy couples have more than one child because they have no trouble paying the fine.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    If Chen and his family are in fact going to be allowed to flee China I wonder what quid pro quo may have been given?

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    The Chinese Govt. has demanded an apology from the United States.
    Chen Guangcheng leaves US embassy, China demands apology| Chen Guangcheng News | The Week UK

    The safest thing for Mr. Obama to do is to apologize to the Chinese Communists, and avoid a repetition of his behavior. This will involve a loss of "face" by America, but that's a small price to pay compared to the price than Mr. Chen and his family are now going to pay.
    Hi, nephew! Long time no see. At last I have found you after searching high and low in all places. At first I thought you have sought refuge like Chen in a foreign embassy (most probably the Chinese Embassy in Washington) as you use to criticize and attack Hak Kwai ferociously.

    Your countrymen would be terribly hurt to learn that you put Chen's face before America's. Actually that guy does not deserve any "face" from you or anybody else. Even if you give him "face", you would still unable to give him eyes.

    That guy is quite a controversial figure with dubious character as shown by his wavering behaviour. He is shifting his stance all the time. At one moment, he vowed to remain in China, and at another moment he appealed for asylum in the US. At one moment, he said he had left the US Embassy on his accord, and at another moment he claimed that he was forced to leave the embassy.

    To compare that guy with Fang Lizhi is really a big insult to the well-known astrophysicist who was accused by China of stirring up the Tiananmen Square unrest in 1989. One is a village guy with an elementary knowledge of Chinese but the other is a highly educated astrophysicist. Isn't it a big insult to Fang to lump that guy together with him?

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    Clinton: Activist Left Embassy on his Accord - TIME

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    Chen Guangcheng: The great escape | The Economist

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    China-U.S. deal over dissident sours, Chen fears for life - Yahoo! News

    Chen's friend refutes earlier criticism of U.S. Embassy
    Chen's friend refutes earlier criticism of U.S. Embassy CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Seems the diplomatic immunity issue with the Chinesse Activist, Chen Guangcheng, has been resolved.

    From theHill.com:



    Crisis avoided...chaulk up another victory for the Obama Administration. (I know...you're hating it right about now. )
    As I said the Chinese want a weak broke America and don't want to embarrass obama with the election coming up. Good for Chen though.

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Save for the stuff about U.S. alliances, I agree with you.



    You shouldn't trust our media on China, especially when they don't give you all the details. The death threats did not come from the central government, but the local authorities who Chen has opposed, though the report you cite is perfectly silent on where the threats originated in a typical demonstration of Sinophobic bias. China's central government has an interest in keeping him and his family alive. At this point they also have a strong interest in keeping them free. Not only because anything else would be a blow to the government's reputation, but because there are undoubtedly people in the central government who would prefer it if he had never been detained in the first place. Were you as familiar with the history of this case as I am you would know that this was always about the Linyi authorities going after Chen for him exposing their misdeeds.



    China never had such a policy. It is very much illegal in China. Unfortunately, that kind of critical information tends to get lost in Western media coverage. Go figure. Forced abortion and forced sterilization in China is no different from the same in any other country with an overpopulation problem in that it is a consequence of pressure for officials to meet population quotas. The vast majority who violate the one-child policy just get slapped with a hefty fine, which itself has the consequence that many wealthy couples have more than one child because they have no trouble paying the fine.
    You are ignorant as to how China works and are a victim of their well thought out deceit. The official line of the main government in China is always moderate and reasonable but their local thugs are the ones who enforce the real policy, this lets the big shots keep their hands clean and they are able to say that isn't our policy, those dang local officials are to blame, then people like you willingly go along like good little sheep.

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    You are ignorant as to how China works and are a victim of their well thought out deceit. The official line of the main government in China is always moderate and reasonable but their local thugs are the ones who enforce the real policy, this lets the big shots keep their hands clean and they are able to say that isn't our policy, those dang local officials are to blame, then people like you willingly go along like good little sheep.
    Do you have proof of your claims about "how China works"?
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by reedak View Post
    Hi, nephew! Long time no see. At last I have found you after searching high and low in all places. At first I thought you have sought refuge like Chen in a foreign embassy (most probably the Chinese Embassy in Washington) as you use to criticize and attack Hak Kwai ferociously.

    Your countrymen would be terribly hurt to learn that you put Chen's face before America's. Actually that guy does not deserve any "face" from you or anybody else. Even if you give him "face", you would still unable to give him eyes.

    That guy is quite a controversial figure with dubious character as shown by his wavering behaviour. He is shifting his stance all the time. At one moment, he vowed to remain in China, and at another moment he appealed for asylum in the US. At one moment, he said he had left the US Embassy on his accord, and at another moment he claimed that he was forced to leave the embassy.

    To compare that guy with Fang Lizhi is really a big insult to the well-known astrophysicist who was accused by China of stirring up the Tiananmen Square unrest in 1989. One is a village guy with an elementary knowledge of Chinese but the other is a highly educated astrophysicist. Isn't it a big insult to Fang to lump that guy together with him?

    Dissident released, but saga not over
    Dissident released, but saga not over

    Clinton: Activist Left Embassy on his Accord
    Clinton: Activist Left Embassy on his Accord - TIME

    The great escape
    Chen Guangcheng: The great escape | The Economist

    China-U.S. deal over dissident sours, Chen fears for life
    China-U.S. deal over dissident sours, Chen fears for life - Yahoo! News

    Chen's friend refutes earlier criticism of U.S. Embassy
    Chen's friend refutes earlier criticism of U.S. Embassy – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs
    Hello Esteemed Uncle,

    It's good to see you again. You are as opinionated as ever.

    No one comes out of this affair looking good. The most interesting aspect is the internal struggle within the Party. Sort of reminds me of the inter Party struggles of the past. Hopefully, I'm mistaken.

    Between the security chief in Chongquing and Mr. Chen it seems like the US Embassy and Consulates have become involved in political disputes in China. The Beijing Daily is saying very bad things about Ambassador Locke.

    I think I'm more Chinese than Ambassador Locke.

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    ....The Beijing Daily is saying very bad things about Ambassador Locke....
    The Chen Guangcheng affair has embarrassingly exposed the paralysis of the Chinese government apparatus. I think the Chinese government would have liked to send a high-ranking official like Wen Jiabao to attend to Chen personally. Before they could take any concrete action, Ambassador Locke sped like Speedy Gonzales to assist the wheelchair-bound Chen in the full glare of the Chinese public and the whole world.

    In contrast, the Chinese government is as lethargic as Speedy Gonzales' cousin, Slowpoke Rodriguez. Locke's speedy reaction could have embarrassed and infuriated the Chinese government. This may explain the Chinese state newspaper's criticism of him.

    In its contemporary history, China has produced such peculiar things as barefoot doctors, barefoot lawyers and Jesus' brother. Just think of a free offer of travelling all the way from China to America in a plane flown by a "barefoot pilot". Any taker?

    Speedy Gonzales
    Speedy Gonzales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    ....I think I'm more Chinese than Ambassador Locke.
    Ambassador Locke seems to have an identity problem in China. On the one hand, he claims to be so proud of his Chinese ancestry, the Chinese cultures and values. On the other hand, he said it is good that he cannot speak mandarin well.

    Hak Kwai should have appointed you Ambassador to China. At least you don't have the "Chinese face" problem when dealing with the Chinese. When the Chinese look at US Ambassador Albert's face, they will know that you are clearly a representative of the United States government even though you think you are more Chinese than Ambassador Locke.

    As you are a fierce critic of Hak Kwai, he will never appoint you the next US Ambassador to China even if China demands the US to replace Locke. However, there is still one way to poke your nose into China's affairs on behalf of the US government, i.e. by setting up a rival non-profit religious group to help activists to escape from China. You should know that at the end of the day, the US Congress will trust a White American more than a Chinese American.

    Despite Chinese face, I represent America: Gary Locke
    Despite Chinese face, I represent America: Gary Locke - People's Daily Online

  9. #49
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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    You are ignorant as to how China works and are a victim of their well thought out deceit. The official line of the main government in China is always moderate and reasonable but their local thugs are the ones who enforce the real policy, this lets the big shots keep their hands clean and they are able to say that isn't our policy, those dang local officials are to blame, then people like you willingly go along like good little sheep.
    Actually, this is the policy of any and all governments whose primary goal is self preservation rather than serving the people they presumably represent__Does this sound familiar to anyone???

    Think about it__Every time a US government agency or bureaucracy is exposed for it's transgressions, our elected representatives make public displays of shock and disgust, yet nothing changes.
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by reedak View Post
    The Chen Guangcheng affair has embarrassingly exposed the paralysis of the Chinese government apparatus. I think the Chinese government would have liked to send a high-ranking official like Wen Jiabao to attend to Chen personally. Before they could take any concrete action, Ambassador Locke sped like Speedy Gonzales to assist the wheelchair-bound Chen in the full glare of the Chinese public and the whole world.

    In contrast, the Chinese government is as lethargic as Speedy Gonzales' cousin, Slowpoke Rodriguez. Locke's speedy reaction could have embarrassed and infuriated the Chinese government. This may explain the Chinese state newspaper's criticism of him.

    In its contemporary history, China has produced such peculiar things as barefoot doctors, barefoot lawyers and Jesus' brother. Just think of a free offer of travelling all the way from China to America in a plane flown by a "barefoot pilot". Any taker?

    Speedy Gonzales
    Speedy Gonzales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Ambassador Locke seems to have an identity problem in China. On the one hand, he claims to be so proud of his Chinese ancestry, the Chinese cultures and values. On the other hand, he said it is good that he cannot speak mandarin well.

    Hak Kwai should have appointed you Ambassador to China. At least you don't have the "Chinese face" problem when dealing with the Chinese. When the Chinese look at US Ambassador Albert's face, they will know that you are clearly a representative of the United States government even though you think you are more Chinese than Ambassador Locke.

    As you are a fierce critic of Hak Kwai, he will never appoint you the next US Ambassador to China even if China demands the US to replace Locke. However, there is still one way to poke your nose into China's affairs on behalf of the US government, i.e. by setting up a rival non-profit religious group to help activists to escape from China. You should know that at the end of the day, the US Congress will trust a White American more than a Chinese American.

    Despite Chinese face, I represent America: Gary Locke
    Despite Chinese face, I represent America: Gary Locke - People's Daily Online
    Ambassador Gary Locke's actions in the Chen affair should render him persona non grata in China. But diplomatic etiquette these days is hard to predict.

    Mr. Locke has no friends among conservative Americans. Now he has no friends among the Han Chinese. Sooner or later he'll come back to America, write a book and make a lot of money. That's the way things work over here now.

    With respect to Mr. Chen, local security officers in Shandong are scooping up his relatives and friends. There are some nasty days ahead for those folks.

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