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Thread: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death threats,

  1. #21
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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    The Chinese people are going to see that invoking American protection comes to naught.
    Hrrm... that'd be weird, can I invoke chinese protection in America?

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    Hrrm... that'd be weird, can I invoke chinese protection in America?
    Talk to me when the American government is threatening to beat someone to death if their husband leaves the country. Until then you really need to stfu.

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Talk to me when the American government is threatening to beat someone to death if their husband leaves the country. Until then you really need to stfu.
    LoL tell me when china invades the middle east and causes the death of a million people

    and establishes a torture camp to systematically torture dozens of people for years.

    We should get some communist PR activists supported by china in the US, I'm sure you'd find that peachy.

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    LoL tell me when china invades the middle east and causes the death of a million people

    and establishes a torture camp to systematically torture dozens of people for years.

    We should get some communist PR activists supported by china in the US, I'm sure you'd find that peachy.
    China supports brutal dictators, we oust them.

    Water boarding captured terrorist equates to beating a woman to death? LOL

    When the US has a forced abortion policy we can talk, until then umm stfu. LOL

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    China supports brutal dictators, we oust them.
    What, china doesnt support foreign dictators... the united states has supported like 50-60 this century...
    note that involves training interrogators secret police etc... depending when and where

    Water boarding captured terrorist equates to beating a woman to death? LOL
    No, the do creative stuff like overdose them on psychological drugs and blast them with outdoor military grade speakers in a small cell until they start vomiting from induced psychosis after a few hours...

    some of them attempt to commit suicide in straight jackets by smashing their heads against the walls because they're tortured in sessions that cycle 24/7

    also dozens of 'prisoners' aka neighborhood guys in Iraq get picked up then beaten and die of internal bleeding in prisons like abu-ghraib

    those news articles are always the easy ones to forget...

    When the US has a forced abortion policy we can talk, until then umm stfu. LOL
    Does china still have a forced abortion policy...?
    The US probably needs one... the rates of unwanted pregnancy in densely religious are very high.

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    "...'I would like to say to President Obama: please do everything you can to get our family out,' Chen told CNN, according to a translation of his quote.

    He also accused US embassy officials of pushing him hard to leave the safety of the embassy on Wednesday where he had sought refuge for six days after fleeing his home in the eastern province of Shandong.

    'The embassy kept lobbying me to leave and promised to have people stay with me in the hospital, but this afternoon, as soon as I checked into the hospital room, I noticed they were all gone,' Chen told CNN by phone."
    It appears that Chen, in fact, had a change of mind. The Washington Post has a story that discusses it. In part, the article provides the following advice from his attorney:

    “Even if you're not considering this for yourself, then at least for your family and for those that tried to help you, you should try to get back to the embassy and make your way to the U.S.,” Teng told Chen, according to the transcript. “You've done way too much for human rights in China, you've made too many sacrifices. We don't want you to sacrifice or give more of yourself. Please reconsider.”

    The arrangement that was reportedly agreed was not enforceable. The Embassy relied on good faith alone. Now, if Chen insisted on leaving after having been warned of the limitations of the arrangement, that was one thing. The U.S. Embassy could not hold someone against his will. IMO, given China's sensitivity to what it perceives as interference in its domestic affairs--a sensitivity that is rooted in China's past when various major powers exploited its weakness and intervened freely--some kind of quid-pro-quo will likely be needed for Chen to be permitted to leave China. Whether the quid-pro-quo amounts to some kind of assurances about future U.S. conduct to prevent similar cases, linkage to some other issue that is important to China, or some other form of consideration e.g., China's expelling one or more U.S. diplomats involved in the case, remains to be seen.

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    What, china doesnt support foreign dictators... the united states has supported like 50-60 this century...
    note that involves training interrogators secret police etc... depending when and where



    No, the do creative stuff like overdose them on psychological drugs and blast them with outdoor military grade speakers in a small cell until they start vomiting from induced psychosis after a few hours...

    some of them attempt to commit suicide in straight jackets by smashing their heads against the walls because they're tortured in sessions that cycle 24/7

    also dozens of 'prisoners' aka neighborhood guys in Iraq get picked up then beaten and die of internal bleeding in prisons like abu-ghraib

    those news articles are always the easy ones to forget...



    Does china still have a forced abortion policy...?
    The US probably needs one... the rates of unwanted pregnancy in densely religious are very high.
    Does china still have a forced abortion policy...?
    Chen was in prison for opposing it.

    The US probably needs one... the rates of unwanted pregnancy in densely religious are very high
    And that says all there is to say about you.

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Chen was in prison for opposing it.
    You actually wanted more chinese kids, you sure about that?

    And that says all there is to say about you.
    Well yeah, the family structure in those highly religious areas in the us is breaking down, we gotta abort the **** out of those unwanted kids if nobodys gonna teach condoms in school lmao...

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    It appears that Chen, in fact, had a change of mind. The Washington Post has a story that discusses it. In part, the article provides the following advice from his attorney:

    “Even if you're not considering this for yourself, then at least for your family and for those that tried to help you, you should try to get back to the embassy and make your way to the U.S.,” Teng told Chen, according to the transcript. “You've done way too much for human rights in China, you've made too many sacrifices. We don't want you to sacrifice or give more of yourself. Please reconsider.”

    The arrangement that was reportedly agreed was not enforceable. The Embassy relied on good faith alone. Now, if Chen insisted on leaving after having been warned of the limitations of the arrangement, that was one thing. The U.S. Embassy could not hold someone against his will. IMO, given China's sensitivity to what it perceives as interference in its domestic affairs--a sensitivity that is rooted in China's past when various major powers exploited its weakness and intervened freely--some kind of quid-pro-quo will likely be needed for Chen to be permitted to leave China. Whether the quid-pro-quo amounts to some kind of assurances about future U.S. conduct to prevent similar cases, linkage to some other issue that is important to China, or some other form of consideration e.g., China's expelling one or more U.S. diplomats involved in the case, remains to be seen.
    You make a number of good points. In my analysis of this situation I am influenced by Walter Russell Mead's examination of dynamics and by my wife.

    Here's WRM's analysis: China Syndrome | Via Meadia

    My wife's father was beaten to death by Red Guards in 1967 during the Cultural Revolution, and he was a Party member. Mr. Chen isn't even a Party member. Mr. Chen's deal was made by the US State Dept. and the Chinese Foreign Ministry. The Chinese Foreign Ministry has no real power. Only the Party counts. There are two wings of the Party for our purposes. I call one group the Hardliners. The other group I call the Really Hardliners.

    There is a struggle for power going on between the Hardliners and the Really Hardliners. The Really Hardliners see the Chen affair as a way to weaken the Hard Liners, and to humiliate the US at the same time.

    The Really Hardliners have been deeply embarrassed by the attempted asylum request of Wang Lijun, the security chief from Chongqing. This was tied into the dramatic fall of Bo Xilai the Party Chief from Chongqing. He was a Really Hardliner.

    The Really Hardliners were also embarrassed by the escape and attempted asylum request by Chen Guangcheng. Now the Chen affair plays into the hands of the Really Hardliners. They are making the Hardliners look weak in the face of foreign, viz., American, interference in Chinese internal affairs.

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    Re: Activist Chen Guangcheng chose to stay in China to protect family from death thre

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    Hrrm... that'd be weird, can I invoke chinese protection in America?
    If you can make it in safety to the Chinese Embassy or a Consulate you will be allowed to request political asylum from the Chinese authorities.

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