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Thread: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yes, your bizarre fantasy surfaces again. Do you honestly think the Dems would pay someone to be this abrasive?
    so many boards to cover the bullpen gets stretched thin

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Dude, stating an OPEN SOURCE website isn't the last word isn't a cop out it's reality. You certainly didn't provide anything else relevant, sure, you gave the Nation of Cherokee website stating why they made an exception for the chief, that is NOT a defense of Warren taking it upon herself to claim minority status to get ahead.
    There is no reference to any "exception" for the chief of the Cherokee Nation. You just made that up from whole cloth.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Really? So presumably you think LaMR's Wikipedia cop-out was exceedingly lame as well?
    If he did, then, sure, why not?

    As for the Breitbart article, I don't see anything particularly convincing in it.
    Do you have anything better? He gave her ancestry and several different Census records. I will wait patiently for your superior info. (I won't have much reason to do anything other, because it's going to be a long, long, long, long wait.)


    Why would Ms. Smith lie about being a Cherokee on her wedding certificate? Was she running for Senate?
    SHE didn't, genius. Apparently you didn't read it very well.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There is no reference to any "exception" for the chief of the Cherokee Nation. You just made that up from whole cloth.
    No I didn't. Indian nations are not bound by U.S. law, the are allowed to make their own charters. Try again.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No I didn't. Indian nations are not bound by U.S. law, the are allowed to make their own charters. Try again.
    So cite the Cherokee law that states that principal chief of the Cherokee nation has enough Cherokee blood to be considered Cherokee, but Warren does not.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    If he did, then, sure, why not?



    Do you have anything better? He gave her ancestry and several different Census records. I will wait patiently for your superior info. (I won't have much reason to do anything other, because it's going to be a long, long, long, long wait.)




    SHE didn't, genius. Apparently you didn't read it very well.
    So we have a disagreement between the census and the wedding certificate. Somehow the Breitbart article concludes from that he should just split the difference and call the woman half Cherokee? What's the logic behind that?

    As for the wedding certificate, how do you think they get that information? Do you suppose the clerk of court does a geneological report, or do you think maybe the prospective newlyweds provide the information?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    So we have a disagreement between the census and the wedding certificate. Somehow the Breitbart article concludes from that he should just split the difference and call the woman half Cherokee? What's the logic behind that?
    Umm, that's not what the article said. Gosh golly gee, imagine that, AdamT being dishonest about what someone said again.

    Why is it the only way you think you can argue is by lying about what others said?


    As for the wedding certificate, how do you think they get that information? Do you suppose the clerk of court does a geneological report, or do you think maybe the prospective newlyweds provide the information?
    What are these questions supposed to illustrate?

    I'll lay it out simply, not that it will matter, because you will almost certainly distort it if you bother to respond to it at all:

    The only reference in the entire family history to O.C. Sarah Smith being Cherokee is that for some reason, one of her sons listed it as her race on his own wedding certificate.

    There is no other evidence of it. There is no evidence that either of her parents was Cherokee -- her father absolutely was not (making Elizabeth 1/64th at best) -- and she never claimed to be herself.

    But of course, Warren being a very liberal Democrat, you're going to cling to it no matter what.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    So cite the Cherokee law that states that principal chief of the Cherokee nation has enough Cherokee blood to be considered Cherokee, but Warren does not.
    :Services:TribalCitizenship

    From the page:
    Today the Cherokee Nations is nearly 300,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled lineal ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll with a blood degree. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.
    Any other bubbles I can burst for you? And frankly, Warren obviously cannot PROVE she has the bloodline, contrary information was provided stating she doesn't have much of a case.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Umm, that's not what the article said. Gosh golly gee, imagine that, AdamT being dishonest about what someone said again.

    Why is it the only way you think you can argue is by lying about what others said?
    Yeah, I guess I misread the Breitbart article a bit, although what the article claims still doesn't add up. Let's look again at the meat of it:

    We know that between 1794 and 1799, Wyatt Smith and Margaret "Peggy" Brackin Smith had a little girl they named O.C. Sarah Smith. There's no evidence that “Peggy,” O.C. Sarah’s mother, was Cherokee,
    O'really? Is there any evidence that she wasn't Cherokee? I guess the author doesn't know, so the assumption is that she was not? Right....

    and her father's father—Andreas Smith—was the son of two Swedish immigrants, Hans Jurgen Smidt and his wife Maria Stalcop, who settled in Delaware shortly before Andreas' birth in 1731.
    What about her ... you know ... ACTUAL father, as opposed to her grandfather? No mention of whether he had Cherokee blood? Apparently the author doesn't know, so he ASSUMES that the father wasn't Cherokee.

    O.C. Sarah Smith—known in some records as "Oma" or "Neoma"—appears to be the mother of both Elizabeth Warren's great-great-grandfather, Preston Crawford, and his brother, William Crawford, who is said to have claimed she was Cherokee on that wedding application.
    In other words, she was (or APPEARS to have been?) Warren's great-great-great-grandmother.

    It is upon this claim by O.C. Sarah Smith's son that Ms. Warren's assertion of Native American ancestry precariously sits. But under the best case scenario for Ms. Warren, her great-great-great grandmother O.C. Sarah Smith was only half Cherokee and half Swedish, making her not 1/32 Cherokee, as most press reports have stated, but 1/64 Cherokee.
    False. Under the best case scenario, even posited by the Breitbart author, Warren's great-great-great grandmother could have been 3/4 Cherokee -- not 1/2 Cherokee.


    What are these questions supposed to illustrate?

    The only reference in the entire family history to O.C. Sarah Smith being Cherokee is that for some reason, one of her sons listed it as her race on his own wedding certificate.
    Right, and that would be what we call pretty damned good evidence. If your mother was Cherokee, don't you think you'd know it? Do you think you might know better than some half-assed geneologist looking at dubious historical records 200 years later? Probably not.

    There is no other evidence of it. There is no evidence that either of her parents was Cherokee -- her father absolutely was not (making Elizabeth 1/64th at best) -- and she never claimed to be herself.
    There is no evidence that her father "absolutely was not". The claimed evidence is that the GRANDFATHER was not Cherokee. The Breitbart author apparently couldn't find anything on the grandMOTHER (or chose not to report on her) and so just ASSUMES that she wasn't Cherokee.

    But of course, Warren being a very liberal Democrat, you're going to cling to it no matter what.
    But of course, Warren being a liberal Democrat, you're going to cling to your Breitbart article no matter what. No matter that the author is a self-professed geneology HOBBYIST, and the author who found 1/32 Cherokee blood is a well respected professional geneologist.
    Last edited by AdamT; 05-12-12 at 02:07 AM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  10. #220
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren’s embattled campaign: Cherokee tie found 5 generations ago

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    :Services:TribalCitizenship

    From the page:
    Any other bubbles I can burst for you? And frankly, Warren obviously cannot PROVE she has the bloodline, contrary information was provided stating she doesn't have much of a case.
    You could start by bursting one, and not posting irrelevant bull**** and pretending that it means something.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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