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Economy's Biggest Drag Right Now Is Government

Hare said:
As opposed to? What school of thought has the U.S. subscribed to for decades? There are far too many factors at play in Europe to lay the blame at the feet of any single ideology or particular group.
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No, I think you can pretty much lay the blame at the feet of the advocates of the welfare state. The factors at play in Europe are debt, mainly. And the inability and lack of political will to deal with it.
 
Fletch said:
No, I think you can pretty much lay the blame at the feet of the advocates of the welfare state. The factors at play in Europe are debt, mainly. And the inability and lack of political will to deal with it.
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Why equate the welfare state with keynesian economic policies? The two aren't necessarily synonymous. Some of our greatest periods of success and lowest percentages of both debt and unemployment coincided with the implementation of keynesian policies.
 
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j-mac said:
What we are seeing in Europe is the end result of Keynesian economics.
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I agree. Implement fiscal austerity (not to mention absurd monetary policies) during a recession, and you'll inevitably make the recession worse. Just as Keynes predicted. Fortunately the US is in slightly better shape, because our government isn't in thrall to the austerity-pushers to the extent that Europe is.
 
iguanaman said:
When the truth hurts deny it. It's like a daliy occurence in the life of a right winger lately. It is not very becoming.
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Show me the budgets. It should be very easy to spot a six percent decline in federal spending, shouldn't it?
I shall wait patiently for you to prove such an outlandish lie. Show me the outlays. Don't bother me with projections. I want to see how much was spent before and I want to see a six percent reduction in the current outlays. To make it clear if we spent one dollar last year I want you to show me that we spent 94 cents this year.
 
This thread has so much fail in it it's ridiculous.
 
j-mac said:
What we are seeing in Europe is the end result of Keynesian economics.


j-mac
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LOL There is nothing Keysian about "Bankers Gone Wild" which started this whole mess or the tight money/austerity budgets imposed on countries following the Right wing Austrian school which is what short circuited their recovery. Pig headedness is one thing but you lost. There is no confidence fairy, slashed budgets and austerity don't bring prosperity OR help pay off debts. They hurt the middle class who stop spending and it all tumbles down. Europe is backpedaling as fast as they can now, hopefully they will pull out of it.
 
Oh this is just grand. Another anti-Obama poster who doesn't have even the slightest clue! At first i thought this was a joke:lamo
 
Fletch said:
Those European governments are essentially the lenders. Demanding that places like Greece alter the way they do things and to at least make an effort to live within their means was not a 'really dumb idea,' it was the only option left.
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It was far too late! Where was the EU austerity-mobile in July 2007? The Greeks should have been following the German model; if you want to provide generous social welfare benefits, you have to tax your citizens accordingly. The German government accounts for more than 40% of total output, compared to 26% for the U.S..
 
j-mac said:
What we are seeing in Europe is the end result of Keynesian economics.


j-mac
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Or, the result of other factors, other choices. Perhaps a closer look might show things are not as simple as to fit an ideology as well as you'd like.
 
j-mac said:
What we are seeing in Europe is the end result of Keynesian economics.


j-mac
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...or the result of ignoring it. A Keynesian Economics plan deficit spends when the country is in recession, and pays that debt off through tax increases and spending cuts when the economy is booming. It's not a magic pill, it's a regulating force: reducing the severity of the recessions at the cost of smaller booms. The idea being that a more stable economy gives investors and businesses more confidence, producing a better overall growth rate than if the economy was left to itself.

Europe is running into problems because the austerity measures enacted are multiplying the effects of a weaker economy. Unfortunately, they've also painted themselves into a corner. They have too much debt and not enough growth to borrow more money at a favorable rate.

The US is in an entirely different situation. Our current debts are manageable and we have access to a glut of cheap money. Our problems stem from long term structural problems that must be solved now to avoid the situation Europe is now facing. We still are able to deficit spend now to keep the fragile economy growing, so long as we plan for future tax increases and spending cuts.
 
j-mac said:
What we are seeing in Europe is the end result of Keynesian economics.
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You don't even know what Keynesian Economics is.

The only thing you know about Keynesian theory is the you're not supposed to like it because Fox News told you so...
 
apdst said:
Do you believe that Obama has done great things for this country?
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Yes, he has. He has also done bad. Just like any other president in history. Next?
 
j-mac said:
40 or 50 years? We'll be lucky at the pace Obama is setting if we are still a free country in another 4 years....IMHO.


j-mac
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Yep, if Obama is re-elected, at the end of 4 years there won't be a 7-eleven or tire station or any other business that isn't owned by the government and you will have to go to re-education camps.

OMG can you spew anymore bull**** hyperbole in this thread? And you are the one that claims you want debate. Puuuuhlease.
 
He only wanted to debate after getting called out for creating a thread where the source contradicts his beliefs. I bet anything he votes!
 
TheNextEra said:
Yep, if Obama is re-elected, at the end of 4 years there won't be a 7-eleven or tire station or any other business that isn't owned by the government and you will have to go to re-education camps.

OMG can you spew anymore bull**** hyperbole in this thread? And you are the one that claims you want debate. Puuuuhlease.
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I'm betting he can.

Fox News websites are the new WND. A world of hate, homophobia, and anti-Obama bs.
 
MoSurveyor said:
http://www.bea.gov/national/pdf/dpga.pdf
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Look Mo. I know that you are just a bit lacking in the intelligence department. You are unable to follow simple instructions.

Show me last year's outlays (that means the money the government spent) then show me this year's outlays (that still means the money the government has spent). I just need to simple, authoritative numbers. Just two.

Compare them. Show me that the federal government spent six percent less this year than last year. If you can show me such an amazing thing I will be astonished.
 
hazlnut said:
I'm betting he can.

Fox News websites are the new WND. A world of hate, homophobia, and anti-Obama bs.
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whats a wnd?weapon of nascar destruction?
 
Misterveritis said:
Look Mo. I know that you are just a bit lacking in the intelligence department. You are unable to follow simple instructions.

Show me last year's outlays (that means the money the government spent) then show me this year's outlays (that still means the money the government has spent). I just need to simple, authoritative numbers. Just two.

Compare them. Show me that the federal government spent six percent less this year than last year. If you can show me such an amazing thing I will be astonished.
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Like I'm your research slave or something! :lamo

I showed you the report that produced the number in question. If you insist on verifying information from a government source that 99.99% of the economists in the world use that's on you, dude.
 
The article basically confirms standard economic thought. In the short-run, increased government spending generally provides a boost to economic activity, while decreased government spending generally provides a drag. The handoff from government support for the economy to the private sector is underway now. The transition will likely have some bumps and the private sector will need to fill the role being vacated by the government (impact of the slow withdrawal of government support for the economy). Beyond the U.S., one is also witnessing the same dynamic at play where austerity has slowed economic growth in Europe, even leading to renewed economic contractions in Spain and the UK.

These developments do not mean that in the long-term high government spending can't have adverse consequences. If government spending is so high that it leads to a rapid build-up of debt relative to the size of the economy, the long-term impact can be negative. The harshest and most immediate impact occurs in countries with low debt intolerance.

In part, austerity became necessary (with its short-term pain) for some of the European states on account of a secular and structural rise in government debt relative to GDP. The UK acted preemptively to avoid a confidence in crisis. Greece failed to act adequately and plunged into a debt crisis. The U.S. faces growing debt-related risks though the timing differs on account of its current position and very high degree of debt intolerance. The U.S. is confronted by long-term imbalances that are increasing the need for medium- and long-term fiscal consolidation. Fiscal consolidation is not and cannot be painless. It will lead to slower short-run economic growth and the consequences of reduced short-term growth. The goal of fiscal consolidation is to make the longer-term more attractive for sustained and robust growth, by reducing the debt burden that would otherwise accumulate and sap growth, perhaps feeding back to even faster growth in debt. A continuation of the present lack of commitment to fiscal consolidation in Washington will likely increase the need for more robust and painful austerity measures at some point in the future. The U.S. has very high debt intolerance, but there is a limit.
 
donsutherland1 said:
The article basically confirms standard economic thought. In the short-run, increased government spending generally provides a boost to economic activity, while decreased government spending generally provides a drag. The handoff from government support for the economy to the private sector is underway now. The transition will likely have some bumps and the private sector will need to fill the role being vacated by the government (impact of the slow withdrawal of government support for the economy). Beyond the U.S., one is also witnessing the same dynamic at play where austerity has slowed economic growth in Europe, even leading to renewed economic contractions in Spain and the UK.

These developments do not mean that in the long-term high government spending can't have adverse consequences. If government spending is so high that it leads to a rapid build-up of debt relative to the size of the economy, the long-term impact can be negative. The harshest and most immediate impact occurs in countries with low debt intolerance.

In part, austerity became necessary (with its short-term pain) for some of the European states on account of a secular and structural rise in government debt relative to GDP. The UK acted preemptively to avoid a confidence in crisis. Greece failed to act adequately and plunged into a debt crisis. The U.S. faces growing debt-related risks though the timing differs on account of its current position and very high degree of debt intolerance. The U.S. is confronted by long-term imbalances that are increasing the need for medium- and long-term fiscal consolidation. Fiscal consolidation is not and cannot be painless. It will lead to slower short-run economic growth and the consequences of reduced short-term growth. The goal of fiscal consolidation is to make the longer-term more attractive for sustained and robust growth, by reducing the debt burden that would otherwise accumulate and sap growth, perhaps feeding back to even faster growth in debt. A continuation of the present lack of commitment to fiscal consolidation in Washington will likely increase the need for more robust and painful austerity measures at some point in the future. The U.S. has very high debt intolerance, but there is a limit.
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Nice reasonable explanation. :thumbs:
 
This is what they won't report on Fox News and RW Radio... the biggest drag on economic recovery and the general healing of our nation during the last 4 years...

Inside the Worst Congress Ever
 
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