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Thread: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

  1. #31
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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Cigarettes are legal. There's still a black market for cigarettes.

    The ilegal drug trade will never go away. The only thing that will change, is the reason for the drugs being illegal.
    1) People aren't killing each other for control of the black market cigarette trade.

    2) The black market for cigarettes isn't a multi-billion dollar global trade.

    3) There is a legal cigarette market for cigarette consumers to turn to. There are no legal markets for consumers of marijuana, LSD, peyote, cocaine, heroin, and other recreational drugs to turn to.

    Is there a black market for cigarettes? Yes. But there's a black market for any good or service. But that does not justify that good or service being illegal.

    And recreational drugs were not always illegal. The use of recreational drugs for various purposes has been much longer than attempts to utterly outlaw them.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  2. #32
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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    aww but now your denying the fact if we fully outlawed guns they would find a different source
    If that is a "fact" then I'm sure you can prove it ... or at least provide a shred of evidence?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  3. #33
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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You'd have to ask them, but apparently they do.
    NOt nearly in the numbers that the administration claims. Many of those weapons are military export weapons that we gave or sold to the Mexicans or other Latin American or South American "allies" that were-due to corruption or theft or a combination thereof-obtained by the Cartels. Every year in the USA we lose approximately 15,000 M16 or M4 select fire rifles

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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    If that is a "fact" then I'm sure you can prove it ... or at least provide a shred of evidence?
    in the last 20 years several things have happened. The eastern bloc countries converted from the AKM pattern weapons to the AK 74 firing the 545X39 shells

    The Chinese stopped using USSR standard ammo and weapons and started making their own weapons and own proprietary cartridges

    Some former Soviet Bloc nations joined NATO and started either buying STANAG (nato standards) weapons or making their own weapons that fire the NATO STANAG ammo

    what this means is that

    1) the chinese had millions of soviet pattern weapons to dump
    2) the eastern bloc had millions of 762X39 weapons to dump along with 9X18 Makarov or the 762X25 Tokarev weapons to dump
    3) new NATO nations had COMBLOC weapons to dump

    well over 100 million AK pattern rifles

  5. #35
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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    To track and eliminate the source of the tens of thousands of guns illegally going from the U.S. to the murderous drug cartels. That doesn't make sense to you?
    Wouldn't the source be the American government since it is the American government who gave them the guns? As Μολὼν λαβέ asked how does it make sense to give cartels weapons?

    Should we give the Iranian government nuclear weapons so we can track and eliminate the source of classified information leaks or the illegal sales of nuclear weapons?
    Should we give child porn to pedophiles so we can track and eliminate the source of child porn?
    Should we give school kids illegal drugs so we can track and eliminate the source of illegal drugs in schools?
    Should we release convicted rapist into female college dormitories so we can track and eliminate the source of rapes?


    The answer to all those would be no.Do you know why the answer is no? Its because it doesn't make any logical ****en sense to arm thugs, give nukes to enemy nations, give child porn to pedophiles, give illegal drugs to school kids to release rapist onto a female college dormitory. The reason it doesn't make any logical ****en sense is because these are basically contradictory and will cause lots of harm.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 04-27-12 at 11:59 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    NOt nearly in the numbers that the administration claims. Many of those weapons are military export weapons that we gave or sold to the Mexicans or other Latin American or South American "allies" that were-due to corruption or theft or a combination thereof-obtained by the Cartels. Every year in the USA we lose approximately 15,000 M16 or M4 select fire rifles
    And you're basing that on....?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    in the last 20 years several things have happened. The eastern bloc countries converted from the AKM pattern weapons to the AK 74 firing the 545X39 shells

    The Chinese stopped using USSR standard ammo and weapons and started making their own weapons and own proprietary cartridges

    Some former Soviet Bloc nations joined NATO and started either buying STANAG (nato standards) weapons or making their own weapons that fire the NATO STANAG ammo

    what this means is that

    1) the chinese had millions of soviet pattern weapons to dump
    2) the eastern bloc had millions of 762X39 weapons to dump along with 9X18 Makarov or the 762X25 Tokarev weapons to dump
    3) new NATO nations had COMBLOC weapons to dump

    well over 100 million AK pattern rifles
    Yeah, and they make a lot of cheese in Wisconsin but that doesn't mean that the Mexican crartels full of Wisconsin cheese.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  8. #38
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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Wouldn't the source be the American government since it is the American government who gave them the guns?
    You mean F&F? That was a sting operation (poorly) designed to track the source of the illegal trade. It was a lot of guns, but a drop in the bucket relative to number illegally crossing the border.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  9. #39
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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And you're basing that on....?
    40 years of being completely informed on this subject.

  10. #40
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    Re: Mexico Seized 68,000 Guns Traceable to U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yeah, and they make a lot of cheese in Wisconsin but that doesn't mean that the Mexican crartels full of Wisconsin cheese.
    You have reached the point of engaging in idiotic denial because the facts do not comport with your beliefs. The fact is american gun dealers cannot sell fully automatic weapons to anyone without the ATF conducting a background check and local law enforcement giving permission

    LEGALLY transferable Title II weapons require the purchaser obtain a "Class III" tax stamp and those weapons-none of which were registered after May 19, 1986 are EXTREMELY expensive

    for example a transferable HK MP5 submachine gun costs between 15 and 20K while those for sale only to police departments cost less than 2000

    a transferable (converted in the USA prior to May 19, 1986) AKM is in the 11k range

    the ones available on the world market to governments -maybe 400 dollars

    so cartel types are not going to buy through legal channels the stuff US gun dealers have for sales to people like me

    here is the website of one of the top machine gun dealers

    you can see the prices

    DealerNFA - Machine Guns

    military only M4s cost about 1000 dollars-one 20th the cost of the transferable Class III legal versions

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