• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Newest Michigan museum showcases racist artifacts [W:103]

until Johnson signed the Civil Rights and Votings Rights Act. And Kennedy took on George Wallace.

that pushed the racists over the edge..and sent them fleeing to the open & loving arms..of the Grand Ol' Party.

:)

You and Star have a fundamental misunderstanding.

Defensive liberals claim the Dixiecrats, as a whole, defected from the Democrat Party when President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (no thanks to Democrats), and became Republicans which they claimed were more accepting of segregationist policies.

Well, I decided to get some opinions on the matter from some historians.

I contacted Professor Larry Schweikart of the University of Dayton for advice. Larry and I worked on a documentary based on a chapter on Ronald Reagan from his best-selling book, A Patriot’s History of the United States.

The idea that “the Dixiecrats joined the Republicans” is not quite true, as you note. But because of Strom Thurmond it is accepted as a fact. What happened is that the **next** generation (post 1965) of white southern politicians — Newt, Trent Lott, Ashcroft, Cochran, Alexander, etc — joined the GOP.

So it was really a passing of the torch as the old segregationists retired and were replaced by new young GOP guys. One particularly galling aspect to generalizations about “segregationists became GOP” is that the new GOP South was INTEGRATED for crying out loud, they accepted the Civil Rights revolution. Meanwhile, Jimmy Carter led a group of what would become “New” Democrats like Clinton and Al Gore.

Larry also suggested I contact Mike Allen, Professor of History at the University of Washington, Tacoma (who also appeared in the Reagan documentary) for input.

There weren’t many Republicans in the South prior to 1964, but that doesn’t mean the birth of the souther GOP was tied to “white racism.” That said, I am sure there were and are white racist southern GOP. No one would deny that. But it was the southern Democrats who were the party of slavery and, later, segregation. It was George Wallace, not John Tower, who stood in the southern schoolhouse door to block desegregation! The vast majority of Congressional GOP voted FOR the Civil Rights of 1964-65. The vast majority of those opposed to those acts were southern Democrats. Southern Democrats led to infamous filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

The confusion arises from GOP Barry Goldwater’s vote against the ’64 act. He had voted in favor or all earlier bills and had led the integration of the Arizona Air National Guard, but he didn’t like the “private property” aspects of the ’64 law. In other words, Goldwater believed people’s private businesses and private clubs were subject only to market forces, not government mandates (“We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.”) His vote against the Civil Rights Act was because of that one provision was, to my mind, a principled mistake.

This stance is what won Goldwater the South in 1964, and no doubt many racists voted for Goldwater in the mistaken belief that he opposed Negro Civil Rights. But Goldwater was not a racist; he was a libertarian who favored both civil rights and property rights.

Switch to 1968.

Richard Nixon was also a proponent of Civil Rights; it was a CA colleague who urged Ike to appoint Warren to the Supreme Court; he was a supporter of Brown v. Board, and favored sending troops to integrate Little Rock High). Nixon saw he could develop a “Southern strategy” based on Goldwater’s inroads. He did, but Independent Democrat George Wallace carried most of the deep south in 68. By 1972, however, Wallace was shot and paralyzed, and Nixon began to tilt the south to the GOP. The old guard Democrats began to fade away while a new generation of Southern politicians became Republicans. True, Strom Thurmond switched to GOP, but most of the old timers (Fulbright, Gore, Wallace, Byrd etc etc) retired as Dems.

Why did a new generation white Southerners join the GOP? Not because they thought Republicans were racists who would return the South to segregation, but because the GOP was a “local government, small government” party in the old Jeffersonian tradition. Southerners wanted less government and the GOP was their natural home.

Jimmy Carter, a Civil Rights Democrat, briefly returned some states to the Democrat fold, but in 1980, Goldwater’s heir, Ronald Reagan, sealed this deal for the GOP. The new ”Solid South” was solid GOP.

BUT, and we must stress this: the new southern Republicans were *integrationist* Republicans who accepted the Civil Rights revolution and full integration while retaining their love of Jeffersonian limited government principles.

I’m sure the more learned Democrats will have issues with these explanations.

Oh well.

http://www.black-and-right.com/2010/03/19/the-dixiecrat-myth/


j-mac
 
I simply cannot tell you how ****ing disappointed I am that you chose to politicize this thread. The words simply are not there.

nice going.

Thanks, Thunder. I wish I could vote for your post as post of the year. It's spot-on. J-mac's post is both politicized and inaccurate.
 
Thanks, Thunder. I wish I could vote for your post as post of the year. It's spot-on. J-mac's post is both politicized and inaccurate.

Not at all. This is a political message discussion board. If you want a-political conversation I might suggest one of the lighter topic boards, but don't come in here, post a political view of a museum in MI. with the suggestion that republicans are racists, and then expect that you are not going to have a political discussion. That would be rather obtuse don't you think?


j-mac
 
back in the 60s....MANY Democrats were Conservatuve and racist to the core.

but we got rid of them...and sent them to the GOP.

It's not so much that they were sent to the GOP, but that they left for the GOP. When LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, he said, "Well, there goes the south." He knew signing that into law would hurt the Democratic Party with the south, and it did, but it was still the right thing to do.

It's ironic to constantly hear Republicans bitching about liberals when their party began as the liberal party. The radical Republicans wanted to end slavery, and that was a call for big change. In other words, it was a radically liberal idea. Other Republicans just wanted to prevent the spread of slavery into new states and territories. That was a liberal idea, but wasn't so radical. The Republicans got their start as liberals and radical liberals. If I were living in the 1860s, I would be a Republican. However, now that all the racist ex-Dixiecrats have bolted to the Republicans, they're not the party they once were. Lincoln would be disgusted with them. So would Teddy Roosevelt, Eisenhower, and other decent Republicans of the past.
 
It's not so much that they were sent to the GOP, but that they left for the GOP. When LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, he said, "Well, there goes the south." He knew signing that into law would hurt the Democratic Party with the south, and it did, but it was still the right thing to do.

It's ironic to constantly hear Republicans bitching about liberals when their party began as the liberal party. The radical Republicans wanted to end slavery, and that was a call for big change. In other words, it was a radically liberal idea. Other Republicans just wanted to prevent the spread of slavery into new states and territories. That was a liberal idea, but wasn't so radical. The Republicans got their start as liberals and radical liberals. If I were living in the 1860s, I would be a Republican. However, now that all the racist ex-Dixiecrats have bolted to the Republicans, they're not the party they once were. Lincoln would be disgusted with them. So would Teddy Roosevelt, Eisenhower, and other decent Republicans of the past.

So please list the so called "Dixiecrats" that made this jump to the GOP....Other than Strom Thurmond.


j-mac
 
Not at all. This is a political message discussion board. If you want a-political conversation I might suggest one of the lighter topic boards, but don't come in here, post a political view of a museum in MI. with the suggestion that republicans are racists, and then expect that you are not going to have a political discussion. That would be rather obtuse don't you think?


j-mac

No, I don't think so at all. This thread was a chance for people of all political persuasions to condemn the racism of the past. However, instead of that, you chose to absurdly distort history in an attempt to scapegoat liberalism. However, no one was fooled. All you did was remind people why the museum also includes racist artifacts from the present and how the Republicans went from being the liberal anti-slavery party to being the party that hurls racist insults like "Kenyan" at the president and distorts the truth. The Republicans disgust me just as much as the bigots who screamed insults at African Americans as they tried to enter "white only" schools.
 
Congressional vote for the Civil Rights Act:

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:
Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7%–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0%–100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%–15%)

The Senate version:
Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5%–95%)
Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0%–100%)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%–2%)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%–16%)
 
So please list the so called "Dixiecrats" that made this jump to the GOP....Other than Strom Thurmond.


j-mac

I have to do no such thing. It's about public support, not members of Congress. All the election stats show support from the south changing to Republican after 1964. Just look up all the elections in Wikipedia.
 
I have to do no such thing. It's about public support, not members of Congress. All the election stats show support from the south changing to Republican after 1964. Just look up all the elections in Wikipedia.


LOL, Wiki? Really? Get real, you won't list any because you can not, yet you will come in here and thank others that are doing the real distortion of racism's history. pathetic.


j-mac
 
No, I don't think so at all. This thread was a chance for people of all political persuasions to condemn the racism of the past. However, instead of that, you chose to absurdly distort history in an attempt to scapegoat liberalism. However, no one was fooled. All you did was remind people why the museum also includes racist artifacts from the present and how the Republicans went from being the liberal anti-slavery party to being the party that hurls racist insults like "Kenyan" at the president and distorts the truth. The Republicans disgust me just as much as the bigots who screamed insults at African Americans as they tried to enter "white only" schools.


Oh, republicans are racist because they don't like Obama....pfft! Talk to the hand....Come up with something new instead of the old worn out BS.


j-mac
 
its funny how you're denying a fact just because it bothers you.


No, I am denying a distortion, a falsehood, a lie that has been proffered for far too long by liberals whom are consumed with 'white guilt'....See, you are part of the problem Thunder, you continue to further the lie.


j-mac
 
No, I am denying a distortion, a falsehood, a lie that has been proffered for far too long by liberals whom are consumed with 'white guilt'....See, you are part of the problem Thunder, you continue to further the lie.

j-mac

on the contrary, if you are spreading the idea that Southern racist Democrats didn't flee to the GOP after the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, then it is YOU who is furthering a lie.
 
No, I am denying a distortion, a falsehood, a lie that has been proffered for far too long by liberals whom are consumed with 'white guilt'....See, you are part of the problem Thunder, you continue to further the lie.

j-mac

The proof is in the voting statistics: From the 1860s to the 1950s the GOP was essentially a non-issue for the solidly Democratic South. With the passing of the CRA1964, the South starts becoming a GOP stronghold and Democrats lose their stronghold. This leads to two possible conclusions:

1) Either the Northern and Southern demographics of the US traded places(quite literally), or
2) the parties switched their voting bases.

The Democrats taking over the generally multicultural, multiethnic North, the GOP taking over the South. Now, we can play your little gotcha "well you can't name any Dixiecrats who went GOP " game or we can focus on the FACT that the GOP is now solidly in control of the pro-desegregation South and all of its racist and non-racist constituents.
 
We need more museums like this as a constant reminder. Nobody in their right mind would ever tell Jewish people to "get over" the Holocaust.

Get over it.
 
on the contrary, if you are spreading the idea that Southern racist Democrats didn't flee to the GOP after the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, then it is YOU who is furthering a lie.

Most of them didn't. :shrug:

And southern Democrats are, indeed, Democrats. Liberal and everything. Like my idiot governor, who knew she'd never be re-elected so decided not to run.
 
Last edited:
No, I don't think so at all. This thread was a chance for people of all political persuasions to condemn the racism of the past. However, instead of that, you chose to absurdly distort history in an attempt to scapegoat liberalism. However, no one was fooled. All you did was remind people why the museum also includes racist artifacts from the present and how the Republicans went from being the liberal anti-slavery party to being the party that hurls racist insults like "Kenyan" at the president and distorts the truth. The Republicans disgust me just as much as the bigots who screamed insults at African Americans as they tried to enter "white only" schools.

Why do we only hear about white on black racism, as if that's the only kind of racism that exists?

What about all the other racism that exists?

My wife is white. He family treats me like gold--admittedly after some gittin'-used-to. My family? I have relatives that won't speak to me, because I married a white girl.

When people get all torqued up over white on black racism, I just can't help but wonder what they're trying to prove, or who they're trying to prove it to.
 
on the contrary, if you are spreading the idea that Southern racist Democrats didn't flee to the GOP after the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act, then it is YOU who is furthering a lie.

Why would the racists run to the least racist of the two parties? I think the notion that it was for racist reasons is the real lie.
 
Honestly I swear sometimes you are the real life version of Uncle Ruckus.

More like an aversion for Uncle Stupid. Just sayin'!

I mean, comparing the situation of blacks in America to the Holocaust? It's grow up time.

Perhaps my feelings have to do with the fact that I've been able to live in the greatest country in the history of the world. Had not it been for the sacrifices--granted they were involuntary--I might not have had that privilege. I believe that my ancestors would be damn proud of what we've become.
 
Oh hey, look who showed up. "The pretender" to the throne.

You gonna go down the, "you ain't really black", road again? Really?

No way I can be black, because I don't think like you, huh? Time to grow up, son!
 
You gonna go down the, "you ain't really black", road again? Really?

Again? No. We've never gone down any road. It's an accepted fact that you're nothing more than a Stormfront troll. Most people on the forum just don't really have the time to make you aware of it.
 
Just curious, why the hell does it matter what political label the bigots of yesteryear called themselves? It is the policies that matter, not the party or label. Strikes me as a red herring argument frankly.
 
And southern Democrats are, indeed, Democrats. Liberal and everything. Like my idiot governor, who knew she'd never be re-elected so decided not to run.
"southern Democrats" =/= "Southern Democrats"
 
Back
Top Bottom