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Thread: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

  1. #51
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    What other conclusion can one come to? Unless each car has a driving 'chamber' where nobody can talk to the driver, where the driver can not listen to the radio, that cancels out cell phone signal, that they have to blow into a tube before the car starts, that doesn't have a mirror so you can put your makeup on or shave, .... then everyone is unsafe. Right?
    Hello Senior Hyperbole, how are you today? Everyone can be unsafe at any moment doing any number of activities that we may consider “normal” or “excusable”. Yet these things are all dangers and if you’re driving you should be aware of the danger you and other people on the road pose. Yes? That is safe driving. People love to come down on Drunk Driving with this near religious zeal; but they like to forget that many things that perhaps even they themselves have done puts other people at serious risk for injury or death. We look over those all the time. The point was to highlight that there are many dangers while driving, not just DUI. And when people are behaving recklessly, they should face the same punishments. Yet in drunk diving we have a unique case where we punish to some exorbitant extreme and no one gives a second thought to any of these other causes which functionally produce the same dynamic.

    So before we start demonizing DUI to such extent, perhaps we can all think upon our own driving habits and consider whether or not we’ve contributed to the dangers on the road through reckless driving before we get on our high horse, stand it on a soap box, and begin preaching exclusively against drunk driving. Perchance we’d all be more safe if we were all cognoscente of the dangers certain activities pose on the road.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So before we start demonizing DUI to such extent, perhaps we can all think upon our own driving habits and consider whether or not we’ve contributed to the dangers on the road through reckless driving before we get on our high horse, stand it on a soap box, and begin preaching exclusively against drunk driving. Perchance we’d all be more safe if we were all cognoscente of the dangers certain activities pose on the road.
    This all comes across as more of a rant from someone that is probably an alcoholic, that is pissed off because they kept getting caught driving, lost their license and are, like so many others, no willing to take the responsibility for their own actions.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    This all comes across as more of a rant from someone that is probably an alcoholic, that is pissed off because they kept getting caught driving, lost their license and are, like so many others, no willing to take the responsibility for their own actions.
    Or maybe what he posted holds some truth?

    I happen to agree with him, particularly with the part you quoted, and not only have I never had a driver's license, I also am a very lite drinker (I get drunk possibly once a year, have never been puking-drunk, and normally drink less than 2 drinks during a week, if even that). I'm 31, btw.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Hello Senior Hyperbole, how are you today? Everyone can be unsafe at any moment doing any number of activities that we may consider “normal” or “excusable”. Yet these things are all dangers and if you’re driving you should be aware of the danger you and other people on the road pose. Yes? That is safe driving. People love to come down on Drunk Driving with this near religious zeal; but they like to forget that many things that perhaps even they themselves have done puts other people at serious risk for injury or death. We look over those all the time. The point was to highlight that there are many dangers while driving, not just DUI. And when people are behaving recklessly, they should face the same punishments. Yet in drunk diving we have a unique case where we punish to some exorbitant extreme and no one gives a second thought to any of these other causes which functionally produce the same dynamic.

    So before we start demonizing DUI to such extent, perhaps we can all think upon our own driving habits and consider whether or not we’ve contributed to the dangers on the road through reckless driving before we get on our high horse, stand it on a soap box, and begin preaching exclusively against drunk driving. Perchance we’d all be more safe if we were all cognoscente of the dangers certain activities pose on the road.
    If a person's negligence or unsafe and illegal habits cause the death of another person they should be imprisoned under extremely harsh conditions for life. I don't understand why it is if you accidently kill someone during a crime it is murder, unless you are driving. Then it's suddenly ok to go around murdering people. Driving drunk is a crime. You kill someone while committing a crime, and this prick get 90 days in jail and has to hold up a sign? This man deserves life in prison or death. Nothing less. This victim, and their family are the ones who are being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. And they didn't do anything to be punished for. Telling someone that their child, parent, sibling or whatever this victim was to other people life was irrelevant and not worth even punishing the person who was responsible for their murder is just about as cruel as it comes.

    There is a huge flaw in our justice system when a man is facing life for taking a life in defense of his own, and another man gets sentenced to 90 days for murdering another person while committing other crimes.
    Last edited by Kreton; 04-23-12 at 02:30 PM.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    This all comes across as more of a rant from someone that is probably an alcoholic, that is pissed off because they kept getting caught driving, lost their license and are, like so many others, no willing to take the responsibility for their own actions.
    Well if your only goal is to insult and dismiss, mission accomplished.

    But no, what I had listed there was a rational argument for reasonable punishment for similar dynamics.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    If a person's negligence or unsafe and illegal habits cause the death of another person they should be imprisoned under extremely harsh conditions for life. I don't understand why it is if you accidently kill someone during a crime it is murder, unless you are driving. Then it's suddenly ok to go around murdering people. Driving drunk is a crime. You kill someone while committing a crime, and this prick get 90 days in jail and has to hold up a sign? This man deserves life in prison or death. Nothing less. This victim, and their family are the ones who are being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. And they didn't do anything to be punished for. Telling someone that their child, parent, sibling or whatever this victim was to other people life was irrelevant and not worth even punishing the person who was responsible for their murder is just about as cruel as it comes.

    There is a huge flaw in our justice system when a man is facing life for taking a life in defense of his own, and another man gets sentenced to 90 days for murdering another person while committing other crimes.
    Well another thing to note is that punishment standards are wide varying. We can always hear about the case were some dude with X DUIs finally causes a fatal accident and say "what's wrong with the system", but those may be cases which are far off on the wings of the distribution. "There should have been more punishment before hand", hindsight being 20/20 it's always easy to say what we should have done in that individual case prior to it being a problem. But the real question as to demonstration of problem would be the statistics. How many people who DUI kill people actually get 90 days? How many get less? What is the median prison sentence? I don't really know these off hand; but it would help us to better understand the system we are arguing.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well another thing to note is that punishment standards are wide varying. We can always hear about the case were some dude with X DUIs finally causes a fatal accident and say "what's wrong with the system", but those may be cases which are far off on the wings of the distribution. "There should have been more punishment before hand", hindsight being 20/20 it's always easy to say what we should have done in that individual case prior to it being a problem. But the real question as to demonstration of problem would be the statistics. How many people who DUI kill people actually get 90 days? How many get less? What is the median prison sentence? I don't really know these off hand; but it would help us to better understand the system we are arguing.
    I dont need to know what median is because it is less than life. Anything less than life in prison or death is unacceptable.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I dont need to know what median is because it is less than life. Anything less than life in prison or death is unacceptable.
    I'm not quite sure for accidental deaths that I would be looking at life in prison. And that's a general, across the board statement.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #59
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Talk about getting off easy.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    If a person's negligence or unsafe and illegal habits cause the death of another person they should be imprisoned under extremely harsh conditions for life. I don't understand why it is if you accidently kill someone during a crime it is murder, unless you are driving. Then it's suddenly ok to go around murdering people. Driving drunk is a crime. You kill someone while committing a crime, and this prick get 90 days in jail and has to hold up a sign? This man deserves life in prison or death. Nothing less. This victim, and their family are the ones who are being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. And they didn't do anything to be punished for. Telling someone that their child, parent, sibling or whatever this victim was to other people life was irrelevant and not worth even punishing the person who was responsible for their murder is just about as cruel as it comes.

    There is a huge flaw in our justice system when a man is facing life for taking a life in defense of his own, and another man gets sentenced to 90 days for murdering another person while committing other crimes.
    It is a crime because it has the potential to kill/hurt someone, not because the action itself is a crime.

    If you accidentally kill someone while robbing them, you were already causing another person harm by robbing them and you have demonstrated that you had at least a small intent to cause more harm to the person by threatening them with a weapon.

    But neither drinking by itself, nor driving by itself, nor really even drinking and driving together is going to always cause harm to someone else. Drinking alone increases your chances of causing harm to someone else, just as driving increases your chances (compared to you walking or not driving a large mass of metal moving an average of 50 mph) of causing harm to someone else. Drinking and driving together increases your chances even more of potentially causing harm to another but it does not guarantee that you will cause harm to someone else.

    What if we had similar penalties for drinking and hunting that we have for drinking and driving? Afterall, we are talking about a person who is operating a device meant to take lives and they are impairing their judgement by drinking (to a guy with blurred vision or itchy trigger finger, the other guy in the woods may look like a deer or rabbit or bear). Some states only take away a person hunting license as punishment for a hunting accident, even one that kills someone.

    Most people on here has said the guy should have gotten more time in jail for the drunk driving killing, but that doesn't mean he deserves being charged with the same as someone committing a separate crime who kills someone, someone who intentionally set out to do harm.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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