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Thread: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

  1. #41
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The point is quite clear. When discussing drunk driving, people are often times willing to state punishment above and beyond that which would be handed out for the same dynamics such as drowsey sleeping. If the guy nodded off at the wheel and killed a dude instead, would people still be upset about the 90 days behind bars or would they be more willing to lend forgiveness in that situation? I would agree that all similar dynamics such as distracted driving in general, should come with similar punishments. This guy may be at the tail end of the punishment distribution, but if it were something other than drunk driving, would there be quite this much outrage?
    For me personally? Yes, there would be this level of outrage. Carelessness is carelessness, regarding of how it is practiced. I see no difference between a drunk driver hitting and killing a family member and a texting driver hitting and killing a family member. Either way, it is still negligent homicide, created by the personal decisions of the careless driver.

    Anecdote: Recently, a car stalled on the highway locally because it ran out of gas. The driver did several things wrong:
    1. She didn't put her hazard lights on or leave the car lights on, even though it was well after sundown and she had a dark colored vehicle.
    2. She had 7 people in a small car, 4 of which were children under the age of 5, and only one of which (a 6 month old) in proper restraints.

    Another driver entering the highway did not see the car in the dark until it was too late. Though he tried to swerve and break, he was unable to avoid hitting the car, which sent it into a poll. Police determined that the entering car had been going the posted speed limit or less.

    The driver of the stalled car behaved carelessly, resulting in the deaths of two children and injuries to other parties. Even though her car wasn't in motion, she had failed to adhere to several safety laws. I view this incident in much the same light as somebody who drinks 4 shots in an hour and gets behind the wheel, then ends up going the wrong way on the Dallas North Tollway (something that actually happens with alarming frequency), hitting and/or killing other drivers. As I said, carelessness is still carelessness.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    He already did prison time for this; but it may have been part of the plea. But on some level, it's not too far away from the ol' stockades.
    Perhaps so...but is that necessarily a bad thing? Honestly I don't really see what the problem is with "stockades" or similar forms of public shaming. Are they really cruel and unusual compared to the barbaric forms of punishment that our justice system regularly doles out...or is it just frowned upon merely because it seems old-fashioned?

    I'm all for stockades, public shaming, and humiliation playing a much bigger role in our criminal justice system. Hell, I'd even support bringing back flogging if it was used in lieu of prison time and didn't cause any permanent harm to the convict. Not because I think our criminal justice system is too lenient, but because it's too harsh. Nothing can possibly compete with our hellish prison systems when it comes to cruelty. The conditions inside prisons are truly horrifying.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-23-12 at 12:50 PM.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    ■Brain power used while driving decreases by 40% when a driver listens to conversation or music. (Center for Cognitive Brain Imaging at Carnegie Mellon University Study)
    Time to require gags on all people in a car and outlaw radios, eh?

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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    It appears that the OP is the only one arguing that anything is cruel and unusual, some here appear to speak as though the guilty party is arguing this. Another unfortunate thing is that the defendent was apparently not wearing a restraint at the time of the impact. It's very sad all around.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    IMHO shaming, stocks, signs, caning, indentured servitude etc. are far better solutions than incarceration. Dangerous people need to be locked up. Prison is used as a one size fits all solution in America because profits are always the most important thing. We really need to try alternatives.
    How does driving under the influence and killing a person, especially on your more than first offense, not make you a dangerous person?

    I don't understand how locking up a person generates a profit.

  6. #46
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    I agree completely that the sentence was just way too light. The guy should have gotten more time in jail for killing someone.

    However, while I agree with this form of humiliation punishment, I don't think it is appropriate, nor that it will be very effective in this case. This isn't an errant teenager or some soccer mom caught shoplifting where humiliation punishment, particularly wearing a sign for a set number of hours on set days, is going to be really effective. This guy wasn't in complete control of his faculties when he committed the crime so it is unlikely that making him wear the sign is going to be effective at all at curbing the behavior, drinking, that led to the crime. In fact, adding that stress of just having to be out there will very likely push him toward drinking more and possibly driving, even illegally again while drunk.

    The point to such punishments is to force the person to face social pressure and that social pressure will curb the behavior (the teen would likely be seen by someone who knew them and that would cause teasing, that teasing would stay in their mind; soccer mom gets seen by at least one other mom or person in her social group will see her and there will be gossip). This doesn't work so well with grown men, particularly if they are in just a random spot. Most people who know the guy likely already know he killed someone while driving drunk and people who don't know him may now loathe him but they will also likely forget his face around 5 or 10 miles down the road.

    It may be effective if the guy had to wear something like that before he went out to a bar or club or maybe if his picture had to be put up in all bars/clubs in town.

    This also potentially puts this guy in danger from some nut-bag vigilante who decides the guy doesn't deserve to live or deserves to be hit by a car himself. And I know some may think this is just, but it isn't right to kill him for doing something stupid that got someone killed but wasn't malicious in itself.

    The license plates or signs on the car, I can agree with (although it is probably unlikely that this guy can legally drive a car right now), particularly if someone killed someone. I'm even for long license suspensions/revoking, even to the point (particularly after multiple drunk driving accidents) of just completely banning the person from owning a license.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 04-23-12 at 01:01 PM.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Time to require gags on all people in a car and outlaw radios, eh?

    I didn't say that, thanks for jumping to conclusions. I'm just showing that there are various forms of distracted driving which lead to at least (if not greater) threat as drinking and driving.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I didn't say that, thanks for jumping to conclusions.
    What other conclusion can one come to? Unless each car has a driving 'chamber' where nobody can talk to the driver, where the driver can not listen to the radio, that cancels out cell phone signal, that they have to blow into a tube before the car starts, that doesn't have a mirror so you can put your makeup on or shave, .... then everyone is unsafe. Right?
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  9. #49
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    What other conclusion can one come to? Unless each car has a driving 'chamber' where nobody can talk to the driver, where the driver can not listen to the radio, that cancels out cell phone signal, that they have to blow into a tube before the car starts, that doesn't have a mirror so you can put your makeup on or shave, .... then everyone is unsafe. Right?
    No. Only people who choose to perform those activities are unsafe. Putting crack in front of somebody doesn't make them a crack addict, it just exposes them to the ability to do crack. When you drive, you make choices. If you make unsafe choices you will likely cause unsafe conditions. When that happens, punishments should be laid out dependent on the consequences you've created.

    Nobody's made the argument for pre-emptive restraints. Ikari (somebody I almost always disagree with but with whom 've found common ground in this debate) was merely pointing out that some might think a negligent driver who kills while texting is somehow less offensive than a negligent driver who kills after drinking. I have no idea where the hell your conclusion came from, but it isn't represented in anything Ikari said.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    No.
    I came to that conclusion because this thread is about a drunk driver who killed someone, getting a slap on the wrist. A drunk driver that apparently had at least one other DUI prior to killing someone. That someone that would probably be alive today if the legal system didn't hand out slaps on the wrist. And in the middle of this, we get an interjection of texting while driving and other nonsense that has nothing to do with a murderer getting away with it because the system is far to lenient.
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