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Thread: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    So let's get this straight.

    A young man had his life snuffed out by a drunk driver. The driver now spends about 90 days in jail, and we're complaining the killer has to wear a sign around his neck?

    Screw that. Give this pos 10 years in jail, since a sign isn't good enough.

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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    IMO, intent to harm
    Knowingly taking part in an act that you know can result in harming and killing others constitutes harm. You may not think that First Degree murder is appliciable (which is what I'd like to see) but then why not Second Degree? If you think that intent to do harm and causing a death is what is needed?

    Enacting the death penalty has several negative consequences including the consumption of innocent life in the process.
    This doenst quite answer my question. If you murder someone, in first degree, why should you be allowed to have a life? You talk about the consumption of innocent life, then why do you justify innocent lives being taken in other circumstances?
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    So let's get this straight.

    A young man had his life snuffed out by a drunk driver. The driver now spends about 90 days in jail, and we're complaining the killer has to wear a sign around his neck?

    Screw that. Give this pos 10 years in jail, since a sign isn't good enough.
    Why not complain the guy wasn't in jail long enough? (which a lot of us complaining about the sign were also doing) Or complain that since some bureaucrat in the area's government decided to let this guy go after only 90 days (most likely due to overcrowding), we should at least try to get some useful community benefit from this guy. Not just give him a ridiculous punishment that doesn't really help anyone and, in this specific situation, likely won't even help to deter future similar crimes of this nature.

    The judge most likely had it in his ability to give this guy hundreds of hours of community service (at least as many hours as he is standing on the corner) which would have provided much more benefit to the community.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Knowingly taking part in an act that you know can result in harming and killing others constitutes harm. You may not think that First Degree murder is appliciable (which is what I'd like to see) but then why not Second Degree? If you think that intent to do harm and causing a death is what is needed?
    There's certainly better argument for 2nd degree murder. In the end as this is my opinion and not legal fact, I still think that 2nd degree carries along with it some intent to actually harm an individual. Lots of things we do can, if taken to extremes or under a certain set of circumstances, result in harming others. But I take 1st and 2nd degree murder to mean there was intent to harm and kill, the difference between the two being premeditation. So I see 2nd degree murder as on par with 1st, just lacking the planning. If I look at the various definitions and intent of murder designation, I would say that this fits voluntary manslaughter to a T as it is murder that results from depraved heart or extreme recklessness.

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    This doenst quite answer my question. If you murder someone, in first degree, why should you be allowed to have a life? You talk about the consumption of innocent life, then why do you justify innocent lives being taken in other circumstances?
    I think it quite well addresses the question. Perchance you do not “deserve” to have a life. Though I am not god, so I don’t know how one can make such a judgment call. The system itself consumes innocent life and that’s reason to not have it at all. Your last question is hyperbole as I am not justifying the deaths of innocent people. I am not saying people should go unpunished for murder or manslaughter. I am merely saying that the punishments must be properly constrained to represent the crime.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But distracted driving is as dangerous as drunk driving, and these actions are known to cause similar if not greater distraction than driving while drunk. A known activity leading to death, yes? I believe that was your standard. Driving while too tired, to changing the radio station instead of paying attention, to texting, to talking on your cell phone, etc. These are all activities KNOWN to cause distraction, and that was your qualifier, yes?

    How is it not? It's not because you're confusing correlation with causation. Drunk driving doesn't cause someone to die. The reckless behavior and distracted driving which it does cause leads to one being a larger threat on the road than otherwise. It leads to an increase in the probability of accident. But if someone is drunk and gets in a car, someone else doesn't up and die, which would be causation then.
    No, distracted driving is different than impaired driving. When they make radio's, dvd players..etc. illegal we'll abide. I think cell phones should be illegal unless paired with your radio or a bluetooth and texting should be illegal in all states.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapunzel52 View Post
    No, distracted driving is different than impaired driving. When they make radio's, dvd players..etc. illegal we'll abide. I think cell phones should be illegal unless paired with your radio or a bluetooth and texting should be illegal in all states.
    How is it different if it produces functionally similar dynamics?
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why not complain the guy wasn't in jail long enough? (which a lot of us complaining about the sign were also doing) Or complain that since some bureaucrat in the area's government decided to let this guy go after only 90 days (most likely due to overcrowding), we should at least try to get some useful community benefit from this guy. Not just give him a ridiculous punishment that doesn't really help anyone and, in this specific situation, likely won't even help to deter future similar crimes of this nature.

    The judge most likely had it in his ability to give this guy hundreds of hours of community service (at least as many hours as he is standing on the corner) which would have provided much more benefit to the community.
    I can understand that, but I see it a little differently. The sign itself I have no problem with him wearing. He killed a young man and I see not problem wearing a sign; maybe that in itself will sober him up to the realities of life. Did you know that people were treated much worse hundreds of years ago for stealing and being a general nuisance? If I could have things my way, a simple sign would be the least of his worries. I'll agree should have recieved hundreds of hours of community service, and that someone higher up made a mistake. As far as the killer's sensibilities, well, imagine the sensibilities of the mother and father whose young son is now dead. Who's going to care about their feelings? I will, by not caring about the feelings of the killer.

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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I can understand that, but I see it a little differently. The sign itself I have no problem with him wearing. He killed a young man and I see not problem wearing a sign; maybe that in itself will sober him up to the realities of life. Did you know that people were treated much worse hundreds of years ago for stealing and being a general nuisance? If I could have things my way, a simple sign would be the least of his worries. I'll agree should have recieved hundreds of hours of community service, and that someone higher up made a mistake. As far as the killer's sensibilities, well, imagine the sensibilities of the mother and father whose young son is now dead. Who's going to care about their feelings? I will, by not caring about the feelings of the killer.
    It's not the "feelings" of the person that concern me, but his reaction to them. It seems, from the info we have, that this guy is an alcoholic and drinks more when stressed out and it is available to him. Causing him more stress that does not benefit the community nor prevents him from being able to consume alcohol has the potential for causing the community more harm.

    We should be looking to prevent this guy from doing the activity that was the biggest contribution to the other guy's death. Not giving out some random punishment that may make the guy's mother feel good and give stupid people a reason to yell at the guy.

    I don't know how remorseful the guy is for what he did. Most people would feel devastated that they are responsible for someone else's death because of their stupid choices.

    But, I do look at things with prevention as well as reform and punishment in mind. I only give up on a person when reform isn't possible or isn't deserved. He took a life, but I doubt many people would really be going off on this guy the same way if he had been sober and ran that same light and killed that same guy. It's very likely the guy wouldn't even be facing the same punishment (although, either way he would deserve the years in prison). I have been in the car more than a few times when someone was distracted enough that they ran a fully red light, completely sober. At least one I remember the driver wasn't in conversation or doing anything, I guess he really just wasn't paying attention to the light. Lucky for us, in all cases, there was no traffic coming, but it was pure luck in every case.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Enacting the death penalty has several negative consequences including the consumption of innocent life in the process.
    The innocent life lost was the one the drunk killed. The drunk is nowhere near innocent.
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    Re: Drunk Driver Made to Wear Sign Saying He Killed a Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    The innocent life lost was the one the drunk killed. The drunk is nowhere near innocent.
    Well the power of hindsight makes everything clearer. I was talking, of course, about the generalized use of the death penalty and the negative effects using such a system can have.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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