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Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

j-mac said:
Oh here we go....Don't want to upset the terrorist scum by offending them....:roll:


j-mac
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You consider the Afghans, who the Military has been trying to win their hearts and minds, to be terrorist scum???
 
j-mac said:
Really? cuz, I don't see too much outcry about it, after all, you do realize that this is a three year old incident right? Where is the mobs burning the flag? chanting death to America over this? Or, even broadcast nightly on the news of the diplomatic kerfuffle? You know why you won't be able to cite one? Because there isn't any.


j-mac
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Yes, I realize this is a 3 year old incident, I brought that up posts ago. That doesn't change the fact that Afghans (non-terrorists) view that as a disrespectful act. Couple that with the pissing incident a little while ago and in the Afghans eyes, the U.S. is disrespectful.
 
mac said:
No, I think a 50+ year old manual is irrelevant. What is the code of conduct?
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For the sake of general form, if they are NCO, it could result in an 892/A92. If they are CO, then it could result 933/A133. Otherwise, there is nothing expressly written within the UCMJs that forbids the taking of pictures of corpses, other than the most basic violation of pure common sense.

892, or 933. I could reach for 893 under special circumstances, but it would be an amazing stretch and probably not worth the effort. Or, you could simply make the matter a 934/A134 and be done with it by noon tomorrow.
 
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TheNextEra said:
Yes, I realize this is a 3 year old incident, I brought that up posts ago. That doesn't change the fact that Afghans (non-terrorists) view that as a disrespectful act. Couple that with the pissing incident a little while ago and in the Afghans eyes, the U.S. is disrespectful.
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Yep, and some of the Afghan citizens that are not affiliated with the Taliban may think that. It wouldn't be the first time America has shed blood for a country only to have deplorable things said about that sacrifice as they enjoy life out from under the thumb of totalitarianism....So, what's your point? That there are dumb asses everywhere, including in our own Military, or in Afghanistan? No argument there. But, if you are trying to broad brush an entire society into the thoughts of some of the sympathetic to our enemies, or broad brush our Military into that of a few dumb asses that were out of control three damned years ago for God's sake, then you have no point other than to just criticize from the comfort of your home, safe, thousands of miles away.

j-mac
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Wow..... So you would ruin thier lives over them taking thier picture with a dead savage....
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No, they should be dishonorably discharged for putting their fellow soldiers and mission at risk. Without severe consequences for their actions, the behavior will be repeated in the future.
 
Catawba said:
Fortunately, what you think doesn't affect post war Afghanistan. However, what the Afghans think of the US will affect post war Afghanistan.

That's the point you do not seem to get.
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I thoroughly "get it", Cat, and I am relatively certain that Democracy will remain. Funny thing, Democracy, it's infectious....
 
Catawba said:
No, they should be dishonorably discharged for putting their fellow soldiers and mission at risk. Without severe consequences for their actions, the behavior will be repeated in the future.
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So now you have a crystal ball? You don't happen to see when and where do you? Because I'd like to know when to yawn.


j-mac
 
Catawba said:
A corrupt Democracy is no better than a dictatorship IMO.
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The major difference is that a corrupt Democracy exists by the will of the people...and the people in a Democracy tend to not accept corruption for long. Our own history is evidence of that.

Saddam was elected president for example. Who, are we to tell other countries at the end of a gun, how they must govern themselves?
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Who was Saddam's opponent?

We can't even govern our own country very well. Ben Laden predicted that we would be defeated not on the battlefield, but by depleting our financial resources in continuous war. It seems some are set on proving him correct.
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Ben Laden?

You've avoided the question again...Which Democracy has reverted to dictatorship?

Do you know what "Bin" means in Arabic?
 
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j-mac said:
Yep, and some of the Afghan citizens that are not affiliated with the Taliban may think that. It wouldn't be the first time America has shed blood for a country only to have deplorable things said about that sacrifice as they enjoy life out from under the thumb of totalitarianism....So, what's your point? That there are dumb asses everywhere, including in our own Military, or in Afghanistan? No argument there. But, if you are trying to broad brush an entire society into the thoughts of some of the sympathetic to our enemies, or broad brush our Military into that of a few dumb asses that were out of control three damned years ago for God's sake, then you have no point other than to just criticize from the comfort of your home, safe, thousands of miles away.

j-mac
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My point is as it always has been that this, and the prvious pissing incident, can be damaging to our relationship with a country that we are trying to convince we are acting honorable towards.

That is why I maintain it is important to instill in our military members the importance that an incident WE may not think is disrespectful could be seen that way to our allies.

I don't think I have said anything out of line or that is not factually correct in that regard.

The members of our military involved in these incidents should be corrected with NJP and then continue on with their careers better educated in not filming themselves doing dumb things.
 
Catawba said:
No, they should be dishonorably discharged for putting their fellow soldiers and mission at risk. Without severe consequences for their actions, the behavior will be repeated in the future.
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Yeah but you hate the military..... So.....



Again, you would ruin the rest of thier lives, over a picture.....

To bad you give the enemy more quarter.
 
Catawba said:
No, they should be dishonorably discharged for putting their fellow soldiers and mission at risk. Without severe consequences for their actions, the behavior will be repeated in the future.
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Because the average soldier is a moron and needs the example of exceptionally harsh punishment to keep him/her in line?
 
j-mac said:
Really? cuz, I don't see too much outcry about it, after all, you do realize that this is a three year old incident right? Where is the mobs burning the flag? chanting death to America over this? Or, even broadcast nightly on the news of the diplomatic kerfuffle? You know why you won't be able to cite one? Because there isn't any.


j-mac
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"Afghan President Hamid Karzai has condemned the newly revealed photographs showing US soldiers posing with the remains of three suicide bombers, calling the pictures "disgusting."

"It is such a disgusting act to take photos with body parts and then share it with others," he said, the Los Angeles Times reported.

Karzai argued that a quick exit of Western troops from his country is the only way to prevent a recurrence of "painful experiences" like those of the American soldiers posing with body parts of insurgents."

Afghanistan Soldier Photos: Karzai calls pictures of US troops 'disgusting'
 
Catawba said:
You consider the Afghans, who the Military has been trying to win their hearts and minds, to be terrorist scum???
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You seem to know a lot about what the average Afghan thinks about...
 
TheNextEra said:
My point is as it always has been that this, and the prvious pissing incident, can be damaging to our relationship with a country that we are trying to convince we are acting honorable towards.
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And I think if the entirety of the Afghan people that are now free from the shoe of the Taliban think that the three soldiers involved represent the entirety of the US military in that action, then they are just plain as stupid as those trying to paint the entire military as war criminals in here. Isolated incidents are just that, and are dealt with by the military.

That is why I maintain it is important to instill in our military members the importance that an incident WE may not think is disrespectful could be seen that way to our allies.
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Oh, sensitivity training...Great...From what I know we already do that, how much more? daily? weekly? monthly? oooh, oooh, I got it, why not get the Afghan govt. to allow us the Kabul town square, and tell them to assemble the town at 2:00 P.M., then we can pluck these soldiers out of where ever they are at the moment three years later, tie them to a poll that we construct, and publicly lash them until they pass out while playing apologies to the people, and Allah for offending them THREE YEARS AGO!

I don't think I have said anything out of line or that is not factually correct in that regard.
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No, but what you say you want is already being done...From the LATimes article in the OP

The Army launched a criminal investigation after the Los Angeles Times showed officials copies of the photos, which recently were given to the paper by a soldier from the division.

"It is a violation of Army standards to pose with corpses for photographs outside of officially sanctioned purposes," said George Wright, an Army spokesman. "Such actions fall short of what we expect of our uniformed service members in deployed areas."

Wright said that after the investigation, the Army would "take appropriate action" against those involved. Most of the soldiers in the photos have been identified, said Lt. Col. Margaret Kageleiry, an Army spokeswoman.
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Oh, and the little weasel paratrooper that was so courageous as to send these pics to the Times anonymously, what a stand up guy.

The members of our military involved in these incidents should be corrected with NJP and then continue on with their careers better educated in not filming themselves doing dumb things.
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A criminal investigation is underway.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Yep, and some of the Afghan citizens that are not affiliated with the Taliban may think that. It wouldn't be the first time America has shed blood for a country only to have deplorable things said about that sacrifice as they enjoy life out from under the thumb of totalitarianism....So, what's your point? That there are dumb asses everywhere, including in our own Military, or in Afghanistan? No argument there. But, if you are trying to broad brush an entire society into the thoughts of some of the sympathetic to our enemies, or broad brush our Military into that of a few dumb asses that were out of control three damned years ago for God's sake, then you have no point other than to just criticize from the comfort of your home, safe, thousands of miles away.

j-mac
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Just one comment, no one in Afghanistan asked anyone to come over. So, I think it is just a little silly to expect graditude.

The only other things is that we should be able to admit this hurts the mission, of winning hearts and minds. We should all be able to agree it was stupid. We should all no by now that anything put out there will be seen.
 
Catawba said:
"Afghan President Hamid Karzai has condemned the newly revealed photographs showing US soldiers posing with the remains of three suicide bombers, calling the pictures "disgusting."

"It is such a disgusting act to take photos with body parts and then share it with others," he said, the Los Angeles Times reported.

Karzai argued that a quick exit of Western troops from his country is the only way to prevent a recurrence of "painful experiences" like those of the American soldiers posing with body parts of insurgents."

Afghanistan Soldier Photos: Karzai calls pictures of US troops 'disgusting'
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Oh come on....:roll: What's he going to say? 'They are great guys'? 'Yeah, I saw that before, no big deal'?


Don't you have anything better than that to respond?


j-mac
 
mac said:
I thoroughly "get it", Cat, and I am relatively certain that Democracy will remain. Funny thing, Democracy, it's infectious....
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Only when its fought for by the people, not when it is forced on them at the end of a gun.

"Meeting with relatives of the massacre victims, Mr. Karzai said, “There are two demons in our country now,” clearly referring to the United States and the Taliban."

Hamid Karzai News - The New York Times
 
Catawba said:
Only when its fought for by the people, not when it is forced on them at the end of a gun.

"Meeting with relatives of the massacre victims, Mr. Karzai said, “There are two demons in our country now,” clearly referring to the United States and the Taliban."

Hamid Karzai News - The New York Times
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So why are they trying to keep us there? Why are you avoiding my question? Which country has ditched Democracy?

edit: Funny...you denounce Karzai when it suits you, but quote him when it suits you....What would you call that?
 
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Boo Radley said:
Just one comment, no one in Afghanistan asked anyone to come over. So, I think it is just a little silly to expect graditude.
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Do you know why we are there? So, you think that they'd be better off under the burka's, and being stoned in the square?

Oh wait, I know, this is you calling the US imperialist right?


The only other things is that we should be able to admit this hurts the mission, of winning hearts and minds.
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Yep, many people use things like this for propaganda. Too bad some of it comes from within.

We should all be able to agree it was stupid.
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Yep, but not a first that's for sure.

We should all no by now that anything put out there will be seen.
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Yep, and politicans should all know by now that any mic is live, but yet we still have Obama telling the Russian President that he'll be able to kiss Putin's ring after this pesky election thingy....

j-mac
 
mac said:
Because the average soldier is a moron and needs the example of exceptionally harsh punishment to keep him/her in line?
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That's your strawman. My point is that actions have consequences, if a person hasn't learned that before entering the military, they are long overdue.
 
Catawba said:
Quite the contrary, I concur with the US Military in their condemnation of these actions.
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Given your cartoon you posted in the other thread outright lying about the military, forgive me if i call "bull****".

Yes the administration needs to condem these actions but you would ruin thier lives over a photograph.....
 
Catawba said:
That's your strawman. My point is that actions have consequences, if a person hasn't learned that before entering the military, they are long overdue.
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Are you under the impression that there is only one punishment suitable for military morons?
 
Catawba said:
That's your strawman. My point is that actions have consequences, if a person hasn't learned that before entering the military, they are long overdue.
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What makes you think that nothing will be done when this was in the article?

The Army launched a criminal investigation after the Los Angeles Times showed officials copies of the photos, which recently were given to the paper by a soldier from the division.

"It is a violation of Army standards to pose with corpses for photographs outside of officially sanctioned purposes," said George Wright, an Army spokesman. "Such actions fall short of what we expect of our uniformed service members in deployed areas."

Wright said that after the investigation, the Army would "take appropriate action" against those involved. Most of the soldiers in the photos have been identified, said Lt. Col. Margaret Kageleiry, an Army spokeswoman.
Click to expand...

j-mac
 
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