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Thread: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    And it should be noted that at worst, these guys desecrated already dead bodies. They didn't hide behind civilians, turn children into suicide bombers, or torture anyone.
    To be fair, I don't think we should judge our troops by the standards of the enemy, because we are better than them and are supposed to hold the moral high ground. Our troops, at least according to the public's and their own stated expectations, are supposed to behave in a moral, disciplined, and professional manner.

    It's kinda like a Lakers fan being content with a 2nd round playoff exit because the Lakers are still better than the Wizards. Totally different set of standards.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Wait a minute. On the one hand, people say we have to have our strict ROE because it saves American lives. On the other, we get to piss on bodies and pose with mutilated corpses...and we say, "It didn't hurt anyone." Really?
    In actuality, it didn't. It was wrong, in poor taste, etc etc. But weigh it against what happens on the other side. If this is the worst of behavior that ten years of war produces on our side of the fence, then we've succeed in taking the high road.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    To be fair, I don't think we should judge our troops by the standards of the enemy, because we are better than them and are supposed to hold the moral high ground. Our troops, at least according to the public's and their own stated expectations, are supposed to behave in a moral, disciplined, and professional manner.

    It's kinda like a Lakers fan being content with a 2nd round playoff exit because the Lakers are still better than the Wizards. Totally different set of standards.
    And also to be fair, this was nothing in comparison to what they do. We are better then them. The guys that are guilty of this idiocy are better than them, even now.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Wait a minute. On the one hand, people say we have to have our strict ROE because it saves American lives. On the other, we get to piss on bodies and pose with mutilated corpses...and we say, "It didn't hurt anyone." Really?
    you've never seen me say that ROE saves american lives. those same people who say that are also the ones who piss and moan over pics of dead bodies. the only lives that ROE save are the enemy's, they are so damn restrictive that you basically have to wait until one of your guys gets shot before you can engage the enemy and even then only if you have a perfectly clear shot at them and they aren't in a mosque and there is no possibility for collateral damage and it's between 5 and 7 o'clock on a tuesday evening in a month ending in R.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans - CBS News


    U.S. troops posed with body parts of Afghan bombers - latimes.com

    All of these guys who are doing this are a disgrace to the United States and the military.

    I agree, they should all be dishonorably discharged from the military, as should those who pissed on the dead bodies.

    Panetta said it best when he said this is not who we are.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I agree, they should all be dishonorably discharged from the military, as should those who pissed on the dead bodies.

    Panetta said it best when he said this is not who we are.
    They should be punished (even demoted), counseled and allowed to return to duty.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    They should be punished (even demoted), counseled and allowed to return to duty.

    What rates a dishonorable discharge in your book?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What rates a dishonorable discharge in your book?
    It's not my book you need to worry about. It's the UCMJ. What they did was stupid antics following a firefight. They did not commit war crimes, they did not slaughter civilians, rape, pillage or murder. They at worst disobeyed standing orders, a crime usually warranting reduction in grade and perhaps some confinement and a fine.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    I'm just sick of it continuing to pop up: it happend in 2010 - we're just now hearing about it . . . I stopped having negative emotional reactions (or well - just any sort of reaction) quite some time ago.

    We have some stupid people who do dumb things and get caught. Who doesn't!
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's not my book you need to worry about. It's the UCMJ. What they did was stupid antics following a firefight. They did not commit war crimes, they did not slaughter civilians, rape, pillage or murder. They at worst disobeyed standing orders, a crime usually warranting reduction in grade and perhaps some confinement and a fine.
    Here was what Vet Voice stated about the Marines who pissed on the corpses:

    "these actions violate the General Order 1 ban on corpse desecration. So these Marines are looking at the possibility of a dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years under Article 92, UCMJ."

    VetVoice:: Marines Investigating Corpse Desecration
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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