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Thread: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I completely agree. If a soldier suffers from PTSD, returns home, and starts beating on his wife, the psychological trauma might be an explanation for his behavior, but it's still morally wrong. I think it's fine to judge, as long as you also make an attempt to understand.
    I also think some understanding needs to be given to the differences between what is essentially a war zone and what is civilian life. If this was a random soldier posing with some dead guy in the middle of Richmond I imagine my, and others, views would be different. A bit of understanding of the realities of the situation play into it too.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    The PTSD excuse can't hold water anymore after several incidents like this. The military needs an overhaul.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I am forever shocked and amazed how in the wake of 9/11, or the Iraq war, or other such things we have people streaming onto the television and forums and places like this telling us how we have to "understand" how they feel, to "sympathize" with what they've gone through, and "see it through their eyes" rather than just having the gutteral reaction of "**** them, kill'em all". However, when it comes to our soldiers...any attempt what so ever to "understand" or "sympathize" or "see things through their eyes" is "excusing" and "justifying" them it seems.
    When it comes to terrorism/violence/I-P and other such issues, I always try to make a very fine distinction between what I believe is understandable vs. what I think is justified.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    I'm not outraged at the photos. I understand the stress that causes these kinds of things to be done. But given the fact that these photos have a history of being posted on the internet -- or passed along to someone else who does -- these soldiers are too stupid to be soldiers. Send them home with a dishonorable discharge immediately. Make announcements to every deployed soldier that they're going to get a dishonorable discharge. And then do it forthwith.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    The PTSD excuse can't hold water anymore after several incidents like this. The military needs an overhaul.
    For reference, this incident occurred in 2010.

    I personally believe the military has tried to do plenty when it comes to mental care and deployment tempo, although of course things can always be improved.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    The PTSD excuse can't hold water anymore after several incidents like this. The military needs an overhaul.
    yeah, we need to stop killing terrorists
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm not outraged at the photos. I understand the stress that causes these kinds of things to be done. But given the fact that these photos have a history of being posted on the internet -- or passed along to someone else who does -- these soldiers are too stupid to be soldiers. Send them home with a dishonorable discharge immediately. Make announcements to every deployed soldier that they're going to get a dishonorable discharge. And then do it forthwith.

    yeah...let's ruin the rest of their lives over a stupid mistake that, when it really comes down to it, didn't hurt anyone.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I'm sorry, but the whole "You've never been in combat so you can't judge" thing is stupid. If that were the case, men should never be able to judge against abortion as they have never known what it's like to be pregnant.
    You can judge anything you want, you're just doing it from ignorance.
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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    yeah...let's ruin the rest of their lives over a stupid mistake that, when it really comes down to it, didn't hurt anyone.
    Wait a minute. On the one hand, people say we have to have our strict ROE because it saves American lives. On the other, we get to piss on bodies and pose with mutilated corpses...and we say, "It didn't hurt anyone." Really?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Once again, there's a difference between explaining and understanding behavior, and excusing or condoning it.

    When the story of the Marines pissing on dead Taliban came out, I thought morally it was dead wrong. With this? I wouldn't go so far to say that it's wrong, but it is kinda messed up. That is me exercising my moral judgment, and I don't believe this kind of behavior is condonable (sp?) or excusable or justifiable if we're to talk about troops behaving honorably.

    HOWEVER...while I don't think what these guys did was right, it's also important to understand why brutalization and dehumanization happens in war. It is important to understand the psychological conditions under which this behavior takes place, and to understand why exactly it happens. That is not excusing or condoning the behavior - it is attempting to understand it.
    And it should be noted that at worst, these guys desecrated already dead bodies. They didn't hide behind civilians, turn children into suicide bombers, or torture anyone.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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