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Thread: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

  1. #1371
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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Didn't mean to suggest that.




    True. But it is in the military where people are held most accountable. Long after the sentence of a Court Martial is carried out, a civilian will still be sitting in court trials and holding interviews with reporters. The sensitivity comes into play when civilians seek to hold the military at a standard they flee from. Or being dragged about in the media, until found not guilty and forgotten. The Haditha Marines were found not guilty by courts in California. Most Americans have no idea of this other than what happened at Haditha. The media made sure of that. We don't like the media because ever since Vietnam it seeks an angle that neither supports the troop nor the mission. Today's PC world has people stating "Support the Troop, but not the mission." This is the media and politician's way of being able to continue unfairly and unjustly criticizing and judging. It's unccountable civilans that protest at the funerals of our troops. It unaccountable civilians that burn Qu'rans in Florida.

    And look at Hollywood. Where are the Audy Murphy's or Jimmy Stewarts? Where are the war movies that show the hard work of a war effort without the tone of sympathy and politics? Without making us all look like victims of corporation and corrupt government? From Vietnam on, our society has been fractured between military and civilian. Oliver Stone themed his Vietnam movies around unproffessional behavior and murder in villages. And what would Rambo be if he wasn't shooting up an American town over his PTSD? And who could forget John Travolta investigating the rape of a fellow soldier in The General's Daughter during a training exercise by unproffessional monsters in uniform? Could you see John Wayne, Henry Fonda or Gary Cooper in these films portraying our troops and their themes? You would be hard pressed to find a veteran anywhere in Hollywood anymore. The same can be stated about our politicians, who send off to commit legal murder and then dare to demand perfection and credit for "resorting to the last option" or deciding against military advice on what to do.

    So, military members may be too sensitive at times, but there is also a lot of misunderstanding going on from the civilian world that jump to judge and criticize what they simply don't know. Killing a civilian is an absolute no-no. It's black and white to a civilian as he listens to his favorite reporter give his opinions on the matter. But to many members of the military (not all), we understand the grey in these situations as we watch civilians around the world, to include our own Americans, assign guilt. Even a mass murderer in the civilian world is afforded the term "alleged" by reporters. But a soldier or Marine? Never. I would state that most of the military don't want praise. We just want to be left alone to do our jobs without a civilian somewhere flipping to the wrong channel and making a judgment about an act of combat he will never understand and then demanding justice. And it can't be taught. I've tried.

    But there are things some of my kind don't understand and will not until experienced. I grew up a Marine's son. I've been in the maerine Corps for 20 years and retiring this summer. I have absolutely no idea what it is going to be like to be a civilian. Though my wife out in Colorado (kelzie) assures me, I am worried about it. I just don't see normal things in life the same way as others. But I'm supposed to be productive in this world? You couldn't explain what it is like to me because I have no base in which to fall to in order to appreciate your value perspectives.




    Of course. But you won't find a deeper held core of values than in the military where Non-Judicial Punishments and Page 11s and Counseling Sheets are handed out for discipline problems by the Chain of Command. Court Martials are quick and speedy. Justice is very swift in the military in order to uphold those codes of conduct. You will not find swift justice in the civilian sector, even though you have the right to a "speedy trial" once lawyers and reporters get involved. Of course, after military investigations we know what all went down and we don't have a lot of loop holes and outs for the guilty once the Court Martial begins. What would pass as "not really his fault" doesn't fly in the military where accountability actually matters.
    I think what you say is mostly true. And most my problem is with civilian leadership and those who seek to excuse wrong behavior. But I would agree that most of those in the military are as you describe. But I also think that is why they should be most dedicated to seeing the standard up held, as those who break it poorly reflect on all the others. This isn't fair, but largely true of all groups. I also have a problem with the soldier paying the price for the error of the leadership. That has happened far too often IMHO.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #1372
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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think what you say is mostly true. And most my problem is with civilian leadership and those who seek to excuse wrong behavior. But I would agree that most of those in the military are as you describe. But I also think that is why they should be most dedicated to seeing the standard up held, as those who break it poorly reflect on all the others. This isn't fair, but largely true of all groups. I also have a problem with the soldier paying the price for the error of the leadership. That has happened far too often IMHO.


    Yeah, there's the rub. Complain as we do about it, it is true that the military is supposed to be held to a higher standard. If we expect our diplomats to heed to customs and courtesies because they represent our nation (not the trailer bum) then we should expect our military to do the same as ambassadors. In other word, our civilians are supposed to criticize us.

    And don't get me started on the failures of today's Generals. I'm not retired yet.
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-02-12 at 03:49 PM.

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Well, you'd be wrong no matter how you try to interpret it.
    "Most of the world's oil reserves are in the Middle East."

    Oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Most of the world's oil reserves are in the Middle East."

    Oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Right. You're wrong. Hell, Venezuela and Canada alone account for 33% percent of the proven oil reserve.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  5. #1375
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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Right. You're wrong. Hell, Venezuela and Canada alone account for 33% percent of the proven oil reserve.
    Most of the world's easily recoverable oil reserves are in the Middle East.

    Of course, once the price gets high enough, then the tar sands, oil shale, etc will be profitable.

    Meanwhile, we can generate no end of hot air ranting about how we just need to exploit our own resources and how the left wing is just keeping us from a certain prosperity and energy independence. Maybe we can tap some of that hot air, sort of like geothermal energy.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Right. You're wrong. Hell, Venezuela and Canada alone account for 33% percent of the proven oil reserve.

    "The total estimated amount of oil in an oil reservoir, including both producible and non-producible oil, is called oil in place. However, because of reservoir characteristics and limitations in petroleum extraction technologies, only a fraction of this oil can be brought to the surface, and it is only this producible fraction that is considered to be reserves."

    "Most of the world's oil reserves are in the Middle East."



    Oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #1377
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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "The total estimated amount of oil in an oil reservoir, including both producible and non-producible oil, is called oil in place. However, because of reservoir characteristics and limitations in petroleum extraction technologies, only a fraction of this oil can be brought to the surface, and it is only this producible fraction that is considered to be reserves."

    "Most of the world's oil reserves are in the Middle East."



    Oil reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Dude, you moved the goal posts. You said easily extractable...which falls under the catagory of "proven oil reserves." All the middle eastern countries that produce oil are in the top 10 list. There are 5 other countries in the top ten list. Those five other countries have roughly 260 BBL more than the middle eastern countries (combined).
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  8. #1378
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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Most of the world's easily recoverable oil reserves are in the Middle East.

    Of course, once the price gets high enough, then the tar sands, oil shale, etc will be profitable.

    Meanwhile, we can generate no end of hot air ranting about how we just need to exploit our own resources and how the left wing is just keeping us from a certain prosperity and energy independence. Maybe we can tap some of that hot air, sort of like geothermal energy.
    Wrong, most of the oil in proven oil reserves (which is easily extractable oil) are in countries outside the middle east.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Wrong, most of the oil in proven oil reserves (which is easily extractable oil) are in countries outside the middle east.
    "According to BP, the Middle East has 61% of the world's oil reserves. Africa has 9.6% and the Russian Federation has 6.4%. The two countries sharing borders with the United States, Mexico and Canada, together have only 3.2%. Venezeula, a short distance away via oil tanker, has 7%

    The United States possesses 2.6% of the worlds oil reserves while it consumes 24% of the world's oil production."

    Current World Oil Situation
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    When did this thread go to oil idiocy?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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