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Thread: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The IRA get's a lot of it's funding from private Americans....does that make the United States of America a supporter of the IRA?
    About as much as it makes the Afghan people supporters of Al Qaeda.

    But, the money from Pakistan came from a little more official agency other than the private citizen.


    Significantly, Sheikh is also the man who, on the instructions of General Mahmoud Ahmed, the then head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), wired $100,000 before the 9/11 attacks to Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker. It is extraordinary that neither Ahmed nor Sheikh have been charged and brought to trial on this count.

    Michael Meacher: The Pakistan connection | World news | The Guardian

    More than a month after the money transfer was discovered, the head of ISI, General Mahmud Ahmed resigned from his position. It was reported that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) was investigating the possibility that Gen. Ahmed ordered Saeed Sheikh to send the $100,000 to Atta [14]

    The Wall Street Journal was one of the only Western news organizations to follow up on the story, citing the Times of India: "US authorities sought General Mahmud Ahmed's removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 was wired to WTC hijacker Mohamed Atta from Pakistan by Ahmad Umar Sheikh at the instance of General Mahmud."[17]

    Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    We play lose with terms like connections and help, but of our problems, the Taliban were and are the least of them.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #1352
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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    But then we'd have to deal with him. This administration prefers you just kill them.
    Everyone prefers it. They just won't say it. Bush's attempt to shut down GITMO was blocked because he struggled with what to do with the prisoners that nobody wants. GIMO remains open under Obama for the same reason. There is a great difference between our intel system knowing a person is guilty and a court room proving it.

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You might want to recheck.


    We don't need Taliban permission to operate in Afghanistan.

  4. #1354
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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Protected? They were doing a decent job of that in Pakistan. Seems I recall money for 9/11 came from Pakistan as well. But hey, let's nto quibble. The fact si getting him would be one thing. Nation building another.
    You are preaching to the choir. How do you think a guy like me feels about these matters? Afghanistan was always the "Vietnam." It was never Iraq. Pakistan has revealed itself to be a true enemy to us on many levels, yet we continue to cut annual allowance to them and call them an ally. Almost half of the men killed in Afghanistan this year have been from cops who have turned on their handlers, yet we ctaer to Karzai's accusations and demands for annual money. Saudi Arabia is the source of hatred for most Arab radicals and serve to remind the faithful why they are supposed to hate everything except the House of Saud, yet we keep them in business and call them friends. I'm not confused.


    I am one of those who see our enemy throughout the region between Cairo and Islamabad. I also believe that like 9/11, Osama Bin Laden is merely a symptom of a larger disease. My enemy is that radical parent who teaches his children that Israel and the West is the culprit for all their problems. My enemy is the complete lack of general education throughout a region. My enemy is also a piece of Islam that is set so deeply in brittle concrete that it strangles the life blood out of families and society as their leaders use oil money for personal subsistance. But identifying the sysmptoms is more manageable isn't it? Putting a terrorist face to the event is far easier on the politics than accusing a failed civilization of it's inability to contribute to the modern world. We ignore the countless religious organizations throughout the region with members that hail from all over the region declaring grievances about everything from the existance of Islrael, to the West's intrusion on their cultures, to Japan's Pokemon as a character that leades children away from God. And make no mistake, the Middle East is getting worse. This "Arab Spring" may be the last effort of a people to reverse the path they are on. Of course, if they fail and prove to the world that a civilization of Arabs are unable to function in the modern world while keeping their brand of Islam unchanged, then they will lose the little bit of sympathy that too much of the world offers them today.

    As far as "nation building," I also believe in the British's tactic of old called "punitive strikes." Nation building works only if the population gets behind it for its own good. Obvious examples were Germany and Japan. But we aren't dealing with such civilized societies these days are we? The Middle East offers us societies that are struggling greatly with terms such as Nationalism, Democracy, Religion vs. State, Dictator, Caliphate, etc. You can't nation build a nation that is absolutely conflicted about what it wants. But we can simply punish and move on.




    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And no, prisoners have gone to some pretty damn poor places, and some were innocent. Dead, but innocent.
    Well, many innocent people die in war.

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ah yes. we should have hit the Easy Button!!!






    why didn't we think of this sooner!?!
    Politicians did. The military is the easy button. They talk about the last resort, but the truth is that it's easier than actually doing their jobs. If diplomats were better at their jobs, then the last resort would actually be a last resort. Instead, our suit wearing leaders call upon the military and rely on that played out maxim. It gets them off the hook and places all blame on the military for not achieving impractical demands. Of course, then future politicians get handshakes and applause for withdrawing.

    Another "Easy Button" is sanctions. Instead of sending in the military to do the murder they'll starve out the population and act like they are punishing the elite.

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The IRA gets a lot of it's funding from private Americans....does that make the United States of America a supporter of the IRA?


    Nah, screw that. Pakistan, among too many, is an enemy bleeding us of our money. A big reason why the United States of America maintains a sense of control throughout the world is that we force the world to accept an illusion. The illusion is the web of "friends" throughout the world's regions who behave and exchange hellos from behind microphones. The truth is that many see our annual payments as rewards for their proper conduct and when called on it, it is easer for us to pretend that we can separate or enemies within their borders.

    Germany does not equal the Nazi Party.
    Afghanistan does not equal the Taliban.
    Pakistan does not equal the countless hundreds of thousands of Pakistani citizens who sympathize and protect religious extremists.

    We make things more difficult because we want them to be easy. History is clear. The longest lasting peace from one era to the next only came after an enemy was obliterated and the populations knew that they were defeated. We've been screwing this truth up ever since World War II. Never since has any population felt defeated, which is why our wars are quagmires and last until our own citizens demand political solutions in order to compromise coexistence.

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The IRA gets a lot of it's funding from private Americans....does that make the United States of America a supporter of the IRA?
    Now that the government has to power to detain suspected terrorists without trial, maybe people will be afraid to contribute to the IRA.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    You are preaching to the choir. How do you think a guy like me feels about these matters? Afghanistan was always the "Vietnam." It was never Iraq. Pakistan has revealed itself to be a true enemy to us on many levels, yet we continue to cut annual allowance to them and call them an ally. Almost half of the men killed in Afghanistan this year have been from cops who have turned on their handlers, yet we ctaer to Karzai's accusations and demands for annual money. Saudi Arabia is the source of hatred for most Arab radicals and serve to remind the faithful why they are supposed to hate everything except the House of Saud, yet we keep them in business and call them friends. I'm not confused.


    I am one of those who see our enemy throughout the region between Cairo and Islamabad. I also believe that like 9/11, Osama Bin Laden is merely a symptom of a larger disease. My enemy is that radical parent who teaches his children that Israel and the West is the culprit for all their problems. My enemy is the complete lack of general education throughout a region. My enemy is also a piece of Islam that is set so deeply in brittle concrete that it strangles the life blood out of families and society as their leaders use oil money for personal subsistance. But identifying the sysmptoms is more manageable isn't it? Putting a terrorist face to the event is far easier on the politics than accusing a failed civilization of it's inability to contribute to the modern world. We ignore the countless religious organizations throughout the region with members that hail from all over the region declaring grievances about everything from the existance of Islrael, to the West's intrusion on their cultures, to Japan's Pokemon as a character that leades children away from God. And make no mistake, the Middle East is getting worse. This "Arab Spring" may be the last effort of a people to reverse the path they are on. Of course, if they fail and prove to the world that a civilization of Arabs are unable to function in the modern world while keeping their brand of Islam unchanged, then they will lose the little bit of sympathy that too much of the world offers them today.

    As far as "nation building," I also believe in the British's tactic of old called "punitive strikes." Nation building works only if the population gets behind it for its own good. Obvious examples were Germany and Japan. But we aren't dealing with such civilized societies these days are we? The Middle East offers us societies that are struggling greatly with terms such as Nationalism, Democracy, Religion vs. State, Dictator, Caliphate, etc. You can't nation build a nation that is absolutely conflicted about what it wants. But we can simply punish and move on.






    Well, many innocent people die in war.
    The only thing I take real exception to is innocent people die in war. Yes, in a war, a fight, one nation against another, in the heat of the battle. Beyond that, war doesn't excuse killing innocent people be it prison or drinking coffee at a cafe.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #1359
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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans - CBS News


    U.S. troops posed with body parts of Afghan bombers - latimes.com

    All of these guys who are doing this are a disgrace to the United States and the military.
    I don't know, it's not really that bad. You can't even see what's going on because so much is blurred out. Could be anything, really, not like the press hasn't been eager to dig up any and every scandal on us they could possibly find.
    Last edited by Surtr; 05-01-12 at 02:23 PM.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Photos show U.S. GIs posing with dead Afghans[W:1146]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The only thing I take real exception to is innocent people die in war. Yes, in a war, a fight, one nation against another, in the heat of the battle. Beyond that, war doesn't excuse killing innocent people be it prison or drinking coffee at a cafe.
    And war doesn't excuse killing. But civilized people create organizations and laws in order to unleash humanity legally. But, who is killing who in prison?

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