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Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

muciti said:
So by saying the law does not stop me i was actually saying that the law does stop me? Make more sense or give up.
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Maybe a 3rd time will be the charm...c'mon dice, muci needs a new pair of glasses....


Gimmesometruth said:
More irony! You TOTALLY skipped over the point THAT WAS MADE.

You just said:

"I dont do it because I am not willing to commit voter fraud"

followed by:

"Nothing prevents me from doing it is the point."


I suppose if you don't know the meaning of irony (obviously), it would seem "cryptic".

Thanks again.
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You'd think something like a law mandating an ID to help prevent voter fraud would have nothing to do with democrat and republican, and would 100% have bipartisan support. The fact that this issue is divided staunchly between the left and right with one side seemingly 100% in favor and the other side 100% against is worrisome to me.

The heart of this country, the backbone of this country, is the integrity of our voting system. It's what makes us a democratic republic. It IS America. I mean we have "Get out and vote" campaigns to get people to exercise their right to vote. Why someone would oppose a simple law that doesn't cost anything to enforce (where this thing about taxpayer dollars comes in is beyond me. If I have to pay for an ID for someone to vote, then god bless 'em I'd do it. I'd rather buy them an ID then pay for their welfare) and honestly costs the taxpayer pennies when compared to the tremendous expenditures of the federal gov't that the left has supported lately, it's mind boggling. When it comes to voter ID's all of a sudden the left is worried about cost, yet with the biggest health insurance bill ever passed, cost wasn't an issue.

I just don't get it. I just can't put the pieces together in my head the way a liberal can.
 
AdamT said:
Ay yay yay. I posted this study: http://jrnetsolserver.shorensteince...tent/uploads/2011/09/Voter-ID-and-Turnout.pdf and this study: http://brennan.3cdn.net/92635ddafbc09e8d88_i3m6bjdeh.pdf (or it may have been a related Brennan Center study), and another one dealing with voter attitude about the effectiveness of voter ID laws.
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Your first link there does the same thing that you disregarded another study a few posts back for doing. Only analyzing 2 elections. Your second link states....

States have changed their laws so rapidly that no single analysis has assessed the overall impact of such moves. Although it is too early to quantify how the changes will impact voter turnout, they will be a hindrance to many voters at a time when the United States continues to turn out less than two thirds of its eligible citizens in presidential elections and less than half in midterm elections.
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Which basically boils down to them talking out their ass and have no actual proof themselves past that paragraph. IE its all conjecture, opinions etc etc.

AdamT said:
The Disproportionate Impact of Photo-ID Laws on the Minority Electorate « Latino Decisions
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These people are basically trying to say that if they don't have ID now then they cannot get ID period. Idiotic.

AdamT said:
http://brennan.3cdn.net/a5782740e4185414a8_snm6bhfwg.pdf
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Wow...this link jumps from religion and abortion and voter ID requirements....just...wow.

AdamT said:
http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/Democracy/VRE/Hershey.pdf
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This one was going all over the place too. From accusing churches of affecting turnout rate (both positve and negative) to percieved costs. What it boils down to is that anything and everything can affect voter turnout...both positively and negatively.....even things that have nothing to do with voter ID.

AdamT said:
http://brennan.3cdn.net/0340ec86d18adb4a18_vqm6bne7f.pdf
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This one is all about perceptions and how it affects voter turnout. It even makes the case that just the "idea" of voter fraud can reduce voter participation.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
You'd think something like a law mandating an ID to help prevent voter fraud would have nothing to do with democrat and republican, and would 100% have bipartisan support. The fact that this issue is divided staunchly between the left and right with one side seemingly 100% in favor and the other side 100% against is worrisome to me.

The heart of this country, the backbone of this country, is the integrity of our voting system. It's what makes us a democratic republic. It IS America. I mean we have "Get out and vote" campaigns to get people to exercise their right to vote. Why someone would oppose a simple law that doesn't cost anything to enforce (where this thing about taxpayer dollars comes in is beyond me. If I have to pay for an ID for someone to vote, then god bless 'em I'd do it. I'd rather buy them an ID then pay for their welfare) and honestly costs the taxpayer pennies when compared to the tremendous expenditures of the federal gov't that the left has supported lately, it's mind boggling. When it comes to voter ID's all of a sudden the left is worried about cost, yet with the biggest health insurance bill ever passed, cost wasn't an issue.

I just don't get it. I just can't put the pieces together in my head the way a liberal can.
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According to polls on the issue I have seen it is supported by majority of democratic and republican voters. There are just more dems who oppose it. But something like 54% of democratic voters want to see ID laws passed.
 
muciti said:
According to polls on the issue I have seen it is supported by majority of democratic and republican voters. There are just more dems who oppose it. But something like 54% of democratic voters want to see ID laws passed.
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This makes me brethe a huge sigh of relief. Do you mind finding me some kind of evidence supporting this? I'm hoping the liberal hacks on this forum are not a good representation of liberals as a whole. You dont have to do this, I'd just like a little piece of mind from what you said and it would help if I could find some kind of evidence backing it up.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Your first link there does the same thing that you disregarded another study a few posts back for doing. Only analyzing 2 elections. Your second link states....



Which basically boils down to them talking out their ass and have no actual proof themselves past that paragraph. IE its all conjecture, opinions etc etc.



These people are basically trying to say that if they don't have ID now then they cannot get ID period. Idiotic.



Wow...this link jumps from religion and abortion and voter ID requirements....just...wow.



This one was going all over the place too. From accusing churches of affecting turnout rate (both positve and negative) to percieved costs. What it boils down to is that anything and everything can affect voter turnout...both positively and negatively.....even things that have nothing to do with voter ID.



This one is all about perceptions and how it affects voter turnout. It even makes the case that just the "idea" of voter fraud can reduce voter participation.
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Thanks, I was short on time and had to keep my last reply brief. You pretty much hit the nail on the head.
 
Gie said:
Actually no you have not posted three studies packed with statistics that support your argument. You posted one link to a PDF that contains the results of multiple studies and that is a bit of a mixed bag as far as results go. Given that you dismiss out of hand everything shown to you, you really are just interested in stating your obstinate opinion and basically doing the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting nannananabobobo, I can't hear you. Over and over again, and you have been doing this across several threads for over a month. :roll:

Posting links to articles and pieces from the NY Times does not three linked studies packed with stats that support your ever shifting and changing "argument" make.
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Sounds like you are "basically doing the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting nannananabobobo, I can't hear you. Over and over again, and you have been doing this across several threads for over a month."

Also sounds like you are "attacking the source".

mike2810 said:
Why did I know that AT would attack the source. So no matter what study or info, guess the dems are always right. or is it left.? Truth hurts.:lol:
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Grim17 said:
As proven by the fact that Indiana couldn't produce one disenfranchised voter for their Supreme Court case... LMAO
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And therefore it doesn't happen? I guess we can use the same logic to conclude that, since they couldn't cite a single example of voter impersonation, that doesn't happen either. And thus, there is no reason to have the ID law. Thanks for playing.
 
muciti said:
Fox News Poll: Most think voter ID laws are necessary | Fox News
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As we can see on internet forums such as this, the general public is often insufficiently informed to make a reasoned decision on weighty issues, and tends to fall back on "common sense"; something which once told the majority that the world was flat, then that the Sun orbited the Earth. This is one reason the founders steered clear of a direct democracy and instead went with a representative version.

By my count, the fallacies of the right wing argument are multiplying. So far we have:

1. Demands for a gov't issued photo ID at the polls in order to prove citizenship, when such an ID -- as a drivers license, for example -- is no guarantee of proof of citizenship.

2. Demands for a gov't issued photo ID at the polls in order to prove identity, when other forms of ID -- such as a credit card or even a utility bill -- would, in essentially all cases, prove the same thing.

3. Demands for a gov't issued photo ID at the polls in order to prove identity, when a simple signature -- if compared to the signature on file from the registration process -- would, unless the imposter had been practicing the victim's signature, prove the same thing.

In light of all that, does the quest for photo ID -- and only photo ID -- at the polls really make 'common sense'?

And if it can be shown that the vast majority of those currently lacking govt issued photo ID are likely Democratic voters, does it also not make 'common sense' that something more nefarious may be lurking behind the Republican agenda? Especially given that, over the past few decades, the Democratic agenda has been to get as many people to vote as possible, while the Republican plan is to prevent as many people voting as possible (specifically, the 'lower' classes) with caging lists and the like. One would have to be obtuse to not see at least the possibility that the Republican goal is disenfranchisement; either that, or a supporter of it.
 
Karl said:
As we can see on internet forums such as this, the general public is often insufficiently informed to make a reasoned decision on weighty issues, and tends to fall back on "common sense"; something which once told the majority that the world was flat, then that the Sun orbited the Earth. This is one reason the founders steered clear of a direct democracy and instead went with a representative version.

By my count, the fallacies of the right wing argument are multiplying. So far we have:

1. Demands for a gov't issued photo ID at the polls in order to prove citizenship, when such an ID -- as a drivers license, for example -- is no guarantee of proof of citizenship.

2. Demands for a gov't issued photo ID at the polls in order to prove identity, when other forms of ID -- such as a credit card or even a utility bill -- would, in essentially all cases, prove the same thing.

3. Demands for a gov't issued photo ID at the polls in order to prove identity, when a simple signature -- if compared to the signature on file from the registration process -- would, unless the imposter had been practicing the victim's signature, prove the same thing.

In light of all that, does the quest for photo ID -- and only photo ID -- at the polls really make 'common sense'?

And if it can be shown that the vast majority of those currently lacking govt issued photo ID are likely Democratic voters, does it also not make 'common sense' that something more nefarious may be lurking behind the Republican agenda? Especially given that, over the past few decades, the Democratic agenda has been to get as many people to vote as possible, while the Republican plan is to prevent as many people voting as possible (specifically, the 'lower' classes) with caging lists and the like. One would have to be obtuse to not see at least the possibility that the Republican goal is disenfranchisement; either that, or a supporter of it.
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from my count i have seen more logical fallacies from you than the whole supposed right wing agenda combined.

Appeal to Common Sense Fallacy: claiming that a statement/argument is valid or
invalid because everyone knows it
 
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AdamT said:
Republicans are trying to use voter ID laws to suppress Democratic voter turnout. That's why Democrats have a problem with it.
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:bs:2rofll:
 
AdamT said:
And therefore it doesn't happen? I guess we can use the same logic to conclude that, since they couldn't cite a single example of voter impersonation, that doesn't happen either. And thus, there is no reason to have the ID law. Thanks for playing.
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Explain to me how you present a case to the United States Supreme Court claiming a law disenfranchises voters, and not being able to produce one?

LMMFAO
 
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Μολὼν λαβέ;1060412581 said:
:bs:2rofll:
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Its amazing-we are constantly told how smart democrat voters are and how stupid republican voters tend to be yet the deems are the ones who cannot figure out how to get an id. In all fairness, the dem party is a schizo bunch, small number of loud mouthed elites pretending to speak for the interests of millions of low wattage or dependent pawns but still its funny and let truth be told, people too stupid to have or need an ID are ones who really aren't people able to make an informed decision
 
TurtleDude said:
Its amazing-we are constantly told how smart democrat voters are and how stupid republican voters tend to be yet the deems are the ones who cannot figure out how to get an id. In all fairness, the dem party is a schizo bunch, small number of loud mouthed elites pretending to speak for the interests of millions of low wattage or dependent pawns but still its funny and let truth be told, people too stupid to have or need an ID are ones who really aren't people able to make an informed decision
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So saith the representative of the corrupt, elitist, big government, more unnecessary regulation party! Paid for by the party that brought you Watergate, Iran Contra, Bush v Gore, the Iraq WMD fiasco, and the Great Recession. I can't imagine why anyone would question your motives! :thumbs:
 
AdamT said:
So saith the representative of the corrupt, elitist, big government, more unnecessary regulation party! Paid for by the party that brought you Watergate, Iran Contra, Bush v Gore, the Iraq WMD fiasco, and the Great Recession. I can't imagine why anyone would question your motives! :thumbs:
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what idiocy coming from a supporter and perhaps paid activist for the party that brought us the civil war, Pearl Harbor, Korean war, Vietnam war, the Iranian hostage fiasco, the new deal rape of the constitution, Jimmy carter and Obama
 
TurtleDude said:
what idiocy coming from a supporter and perhaps paid activist for the party that brought us the civil war, Pearl Harbor, Korean war, Vietnam war, the Iranian hostage fiasco, the new deal rape of the constitution, Jimmy carter and Obama
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Democrats started the civil war! Wow, I thought that was the Confederacy! :lol: I also didn't realize that Democrats in Iran took some Americans hostage. Wonders never cease.
 
AdamT said:
Democrats started the civil war! Wow, I thought that was the Confederacy! :lol: I also didn't realize that Democrats in Iran took some Americans hostage. Wonders never cease.
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I don't know what is more feeble, the way you are crawfishing and hiding from all the posters and post that have debunked you, that you once again are trying to drag Watergate, and now Iran Contra, Bush v Gore, the Iraq WMD fiasco, and the Great Recession into a thread about voter ID requirements. Or the fact that you think TurtleDude is a "representative " of party. At least you are not afraid to go full retard in the hackery department. Never go full retard.:doh
 
Hey Adam- why dont you point the finger at the republicans and bring up some irrelvant points and situations that dont have anything to do with the discussion like you always do when your argument fails.

Wait what's this?

AdamT said:
So saith the representative of the corrupt, elitist, big government, more unnecessary regulation party! Paid for by the party that brought you Watergate, Iran Contra, Bush v Gore, the Iraq WMD fiasco, and the Great Recession. I can't imagine why anyone would question your motives! :thumbs:
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There ya go.
 
Gie said:
I don't know what is more feeble, the way you are crawfishing and hiding from all the posters and post that have debunked you, that you once again are trying to drag Watergate, and now Iran Contra, Bush v Gore, the Iraq WMD fiasco, and the Great Recession into a thread about voter ID requirements. Or the fact that you think TurtleDude is a "representative " of party. At least you are not afraid to go full retard in the hackery department. Never go full retard.:doh
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What's truly pathetic is that you have absolutely nothing of substance to say on the topic, but instead are 100% focused (stalker) on me. I gave you a chance to respond to my critique of your study, but you punted. Now you come simpering back to the table trying to pretend that I'm avoiding your trenchant arguments. :2rofll:

Truly pathetic.
 
muciti said:
Hey Adam- why dont you point the finger at the republicans and bring up some irrelvant points and situations that dont have anything to do with the discussion like you always do when your argument fails.

Wait what's this?



There ya go.
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Hey muciti, why don't you realize that I was responding in kind to TD's absurd comment? Why don't you address TD's comment? Oh yeah -- because you're another stalker. :roll:
 
beerftw said:
from my count i have seen more logical fallacies from you than the whole supposed right wing agenda combined.

Appeal to Common Sense Fallacy: claiming that a statement/argument is valid or invalid because everyone knows it
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So, you're saying that the world is flat. Interesting. . . . :2razz:

However, you have correctly illustrated the major fault in your right wing brethrens' argument: namely, that there is no need to prove voter fraud because common sense tells them that it is happening. Which is exact same fault that I was pointing out, but perhaps in an insufficient number of monosyllabic words.
 
AdamT said:
Hey muciti, why don't you realize that I was responding in kind to TD's absurd comment? Why don't you address TD's comment? Oh yeah -- because you're another stalker. :roll:
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Oh I must have missed where he brought up irrelevant incidents from the 70's. Can you point me to that? I missed it.
 
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