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Thread: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Follow along Adam...

    QUESTION: What did the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform turn up from one California district?
    ANSWER: 624 invalid votes by non-citizens.


    QUESTION: Is this quote from Adam "I would say that it (the article that contained the above information) doesn't establish that non-citizens are voting" a true statement?
    ANSWER: No, it is a false statement.

    The first step to recovery Adam, is admitting you have a ideological problem and facing the dishonesty that ideology forces you to have to embrace.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 Quoting Article
    In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens.
    The 2005 report features data from 14 U.S. district courts.
    [...]
    Due to the lack of concrete data, 6 of the 14 gave no information to the GAO. Of the remaining 8 jurisdictions, 4 of them had never witnessed non-citizens who had been called to serve on a jury. Ten of the 14 district courts surveyed, then, could offer no evidence whatsoever of non-citizens in jury pools.
    [...]
    Ignoring this, von Spakovsky presents isolated data from just one of these fourteen jurisdictions. Further, 3 of the 4 courts that did report non-citizens in their jury pools estimated that non-citizens comprised, respectively, approximately 1%, 0.158%, and 0.01% of the jury pool.


    https://www.maldef.org/truthinimmigr...Foundation.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 Quoting Article
    a 1996 congressional race in California may have been stolen by non-citizen voting... Democrat Lor*etta Sanchez. Sanchez won the election by just 979 votes, and Dornan contested the election in the U.S. House of Representatives. His challenge was dismissed after an investigation by the House Com*mittee on Oversight and Government Reform turned up only 624 invalid votes by non-citizens who were present in the U.S. Immigration and Nat*uralization Service (INS) database because they had applied for citizenship, as well as another 124 improper absentee ballots. The investigation, however, could not detect illegal aliens, who were not in the INS records.
    Von Spakovsky essentially ignores the Committee’s conclusion that the Sanchez/Dornan race was not compromised and that non-citizens did not vote in significant numbers. Instead, he speculates, without offering supporting evidence, that votes from undocumented immigrants probably accounted for the remaining votes. What he fails to note, moreover, is that 372 of the disputed noncitizen votes were cast by individuals who were officially sworn in as U.S. citizens before Election Day.

    https://www.maldef.org/truthinimmigr...Foundation.pdf



    That's just two, I'm not wasting anymore of my time chasing down what should have already been vetted articles by dubious authors.

    In case you want to attack my source, note that they do give footnotes, if you care to rebut them.
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    [I]The 2005 report features data from 14 U.S. district courts....
    Thanks for stepping in. I'm already suffering from carpal tunnel from b-slapping Grim repeatedly, so the rest is appreciated.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Follow along Adam...

    QUESTION: What did the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform turn up from one California district?
    ANSWER: 624 invalid votes by non-citizens.


    QUESTION: Is this quote from Adam "I would say that it (the article that contained the above information) doesn't establish that non-citizens are voting" a true statement?
    ANSWER: No, it is a false statement.

    The first step to recovery Adam, is admitting you have a ideological problem and facing the dishonesty that ideology forces you to have to embrace.
    do you have the name of that case,or the politicians involved.i have been trying to find articles on it for a while and google results are flooded with the okeefe arguments so i have not been able to find thee articles solely on searching california voter fraud.

    btw in that case there were 4700 votes suspected that were thrown out by the judge before they could be verified.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    do you have the name of that case,or the politicians involved.i have been trying to find articles on it for a while and google results are flooded with the okeefe arguments so i have not been able to find thee articles solely on searching california voter fraud.

    btw in that case there were 4700 votes suspected that were thrown out by the judge before they could be verified.
    Conclusion: Adam stands by his false statement in order to justify opposing laws to prevent voter fraud.

    Again... Bye Adam.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    It looks to me like you can't really say if one is or one is not required, ever, to change their address if they live in MO. Based upon your last post, I guess if one moved someone place else, or to a couple of other some places else over the years, you are saying in MO one can still claim their old address from 20 years ago as their current address? I wonder what the people who moved to into an "old" address do when they arrive at your old address, but it is supposed to be theirs? Do they just collect old mail addressed to people that the state thinks still live there and does this mean they can go to the polls and vote as them too? Pay the property taxes on the property for them as well? I mean, just what are you saying is the system in MO, or is there one that addresses this most common place of events? In short, what did you really mean to ask me? I should just accept that some states, like MO as you seem to be arguing, are more ass backwards than others? Seriously, what gave you the idea that I would disagree with that idea?

    Psst, don't look now but your "link" seems to say something entirely different than what you just argued. Why would MO require you as is stated on page 12 of your link, to change your address when you move to a new address, if you are not required to change your address when you move to a new address? Seriously, did you even *think* about this before you posted it?

    I asked you what the source to your claim that "lots of old people don't even have a photo ID" was? Since that was the first time you have submitted any link at all, I guess I'd say it will only take once for you to submit a link to a study or something that supports your claim. Are you saying that the MO drivers license code is now a study complete with "dissenting opinions" or it is an article? You just claimed it is both. Which is it, and where does it support your assertion that most old folks don't have an ID? Not on either of the pages you said it does. Did you actually read this "article/study" you just linked? Because it does not even contain a page 5 of 15, it starts at page 8. Page 12 says that each time you apply for a new DL in MO you have to update your address. Also, the quote you just supplied is not contained within the link you just supplied.

    The rest of your lecture about MO and how people don't need ID is wonderfully non sequitur. Arguing that things need to stay ass backwards like they are in your 30 mile radius is not exactly a very good one for not reforming the requirements to provide proof you are who you say you are when you vote. Even in MO. While I'm thrilled that your discussion with me spurred you to get off your ass and educate yourself about the stuff you speaking about, it does beggar an obvious question. You trying to prove that AdamT is not the only Google Commando that can copy urls to vast amounts of material he is not conversant about and which does not support his internet postures? Lastly, who the hell told you that you needed to beg for forgiveness?
    If this simple statement ...
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    http://dor.mo.gov/pdf/Chapter1.pdf -> page 12 or PDF Pg 5/15
    seems perplexing to you then it's no wonder you had trouble comprehending the rest of my post. As you noted, "it starts at page 8".

    page/PDF Pg
    8 ..... 1
    9 ..... 2
    10 ... 3
    11 ... 4
    12 ... 5


    Another simple concept, three different possible addresses:
    - real, physical address
    - physical card (state issued license)
    - government database

    The on-line 'change of address' form I linked shows your Missouri driver's license (physical card) does not need to be updated when you change your official address (government database). Note that getting a new state issued license costs money, it is not free.
    Quote from on-line 'change of address' form:
    This change includes instruction permits and nondriver licenses. You must complete a Driver License Application at a Missouri License Office if you want your Missouri Driver License to reflect your new address.
    As far as I know there is no requirement to ever change or register an official address. This isn't the USSR nor is it a George Orwell novel! If you want to call that "ass backward" then so be it.

    There are certain requirements you must meet if you want to do certain things. For example, if you want to legally drive you are required to have a current driver's license, which will require you to provide certain current information among other things (like taking a test). If you want to vote (voting is not a requirement of residency) I believe Missouri voting laws require you to register to vote at your current address (real, physical address) six months or more before election day. If you move within six months of election day I believe you can vote as if you resided at your old address. Since anyone moving into your old address would not have been registered to vote at that address six months prior to election day this would not create a duplicate vote.
    To avoid being called a "Google Commando" or other seemingly derogatory name again, I will let you get off your ass and provide documentation to the contrary if you disagree with my understanding of Missouri voting laws.



    I showed the source of this quote:
    A 2009 study by the secretary of state's office estimated around 230,000 Missourians are registered to vote but lack a government-issued photo ID. Many of those would have no problem getting a photo ID, but many others could have financial or other barriers that keep them from doing so, said Laura Egerdal, spokeswoman for Secretary of State Robin Carnahan, who opposes a photo ID requirement to vote. While the proposed amendment would mean the state would pay for photo IDs for these voters, the underlying documents required could be expensive or even impossible to obtain, she said.
    But here it is again for those of you having trouble:
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Here's the state of affairs here, including the failed attempt in 2006 to make us have a photo ID to vote.
    Lawmakers put photo ID amendment on Mo. ballot
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  7. #497
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    btw in that case there were 4700 votes suspected that were thrown out by the judge before they could be verified.
    Maybe you missed it, but the point was that illegal aliens DO VOTE in elections, which directly shoots down Adam's claim that they don't.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Maybe you missed it, but the point was that illegal aliens DO VOTE in elections, which directly shoots down Adam's claim that they don't.
    Really? Where is the evidence? I don't mean ACCUSATIONS -- I mean PROOF. The Dornan election was investigated by Congress for over a year and they came to no conclusion. There is evidence that some of the alleged non-citizens were in fact citizens. And it appears that others may have been mistakenly registered before they were naturalized, but they became citizens before the election. Contested Contest | PBS NewsHour | Oct. 22, 1997 | PBS

    So please provide a link showing the convictions of non-citizens who voted or STFU.

    The Orange County district attorney also began a fraud investigation to determine whether the community organization Hermandad Mexicana Nacional deliberately set out to register illegal immigrants and send them to the polls. In December, a grand jury refused to indict anyone.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...ouse020598.htm
    Last edited by AdamT; 04-25-12 at 06:58 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Maybe you missed it, but the point was that illegal aliens DO VOTE in elections, which directly shoots down Adam's claim that they don't.
    no i got the point,i already know about that case,and the verified number of illegal voters,and the 4700 potential illegal voters,i just for the life of me cant remember which election it was or the names of the politicians involved.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    no i got the point,i already know about that case,and the verified number of illegal voters,and the 4700 potential illegal voters,i just for the life of me cant remember which election it was or the names of the politicians involved.
    It was an Orange County, CA congressional election between Dornan and Sanchez. There was no "verified number of illegal voters".
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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