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Thread: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

  1. #41
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Here is some of what he said:


    It remains true, however, that flagrant examples
    of such fraud in other parts of the country have been
    documented throughout this Nation’s history by respected
    historians and journalists,11 that occasional examples have
    surfaced in recent years,12 and that Indiana’s own experi-
    ence with fraudulent voting in the 2003 Democratic primary
    for East Chicago Mayor13—though perpetrated using
    absentee ballots and not in-person fraud—demonstrate
    that not only is the risk of voter fraud real but that it
    could affect the outcome of a close election.



    http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content...8/04/07-21.pdf
    Interesting that you chose not to include the preceding sentence: "The only kind of voter fraud that SEA 483 addresses is in-person voter impersonation at polling places. The record contains no evidence of any such fraud actually occurring in Indiana at any time in its history. (emphasis added)"

    The main example that Stevens cited of it occurring in the U.S. was from 1868. It was disputed whether the other examples actually constituted in-person voter fraud, with the exception of one instance. So basically it boils down to ONE example of in-person voter fraud in modern American history. Clearly that justifies the imposition of laws that would cost tens of millions of dollars to implement and would certainly result in hundreds of thousands -- probably millios -- of people who would otherwise vote not voting. Because there's one documented case of voter impersonation in modern memory, and no guarantee that it might not have happened anyway by virtue of a false ID.

    Certainly this shocking evidence explains the Republicans' sudden fervor to reduce voter participation among traditionally Democratic voting citizens.
    Last edited by AdamT; 04-18-12 at 07:18 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Interesting that you chose not to include the preceding sentence: "The only kind of voter fraud that SEA 483 addresses is in-person voter impersonation at polling places. The record contains no evidence of any such fraud actually occurring in Indiana at any time in its history. (emphasis added)"

    The main example that Stevens cited of it occurring in the U.S. was from 1868. It was disputed whether the other examples actually constituted in-person voter fraud, with the exception of one instance. So basically it boils down to ONE example of in-person voter fraud in modern American history. Clearly that justifies the imposition of laws that would cost tens of millions of dollars to implement and would certainly result in hundreds of thousands -- probably millios -- of people who would otherwise vote not voting. Because there's one documented case of voter impersonation in modern memory, and no guarantee that it might not have happened anyway by virtue of a false ID.

    Certainly this shocking evidence explains the Republicans' sudden fervor to reduce voter participation among traditionally Democratic voting citizens.
    Excuse me, but you wanted me to back up my statement about Stevens and that is exactly what I did. That sentence is totally irrelevant to that point.

    And by the way, do you know the main reason why Stevens voted to uphold the law? Because the plaintiffs couldn't produce as much as one example of anyone who was disenfranchised because of that law... NOT ONE. So you can take your "hundreds of thousands -- probably millions" of people, stuff them in a pipe, and smoke em up pal.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Can you point to even one case where it was proven that an illegal alien voted?
    That, my dear, has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. But nice try. Typical talking point. "Prove there's fraud." I don't have to. I have to show my freakin' driver's license to use my pool pass. Having to prove one's citizenship? You think that's an affront? I think it's bat-**** insane that one doesn't have to. And never the twains shall meet.
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That, my dear, has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. But nice try. Typical talking point. "Prove there's fraud." I don't have to. I have to show my freakin' driver's license to use my pool pass. Having to prove one's citizenship? You think that's an affront? I think it's bat-**** insane that one doesn't have to. And never the twains shall meet.
    Uh, that is absolutely insane. You are actually saying that you want government to enact laws when there is absolutely no demonstrated problem? How about they pass a law requiring you to wear a helmet to protect you from falling space junk? I mean, it's never happened but it would just be CRAZY to take the chance!
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Uh, that is absolutely insane. You are actually saying that you want government to enact laws when there is absolutely no demonstrated problem? How about they pass a law requiring you to wear a helmet to protect you from falling space junk? I mean, it's never happened but it would just be CRAZY to take the chance!
    Yes. No.
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Uh, that is absolutely insane. You are actually saying that you want government to enact laws when there is absolutely no demonstrated problem? How about they pass a law requiring you to wear a helmet to protect you from falling space junk? I mean, it's never happened but it would just be CRAZY to take the chance!
    No. We just are not pretending to be so foolish as to drink that liberal Kool-Ade.

    Democrats and liberals are, on average, of far lower ethical standards than Conservatives. They cheat. They obfuscate. They whine and moan. And they shun accountability.

    And the rest of us grow weary of it.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Uh, that is absolutely insane. You are actually saying that you want government to enact laws when there is absolutely no demonstrated problem? How about they pass a law requiring you to wear a helmet to protect you from falling space junk? I mean, it's never happened but it would just be CRAZY to take the chance!
    There is a typical AdamT post, wherever did you get the bat***t insane idea that MaggieD said that? Besides that, your argument predicated upon the number of convictions and prosecutions, which in your simplistic view means there is no voter fraud? It has been addressed and debunked before in other threads. Trotting out that sad little facetious and highly disingenuous fluff again does not reconstitute it and make a intelligent point. Repeats and strawmen, bravo.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Can you point to even one case where it was proven that an illegal alien voted?
    You asked, and now you know. It does happen. (I only posted one. didn't want to do all your work for you

    LAKE COUNTY, Ill. - An illegal alien from the Philippines was arrested Thursday morning on a felony complaint charging her with 17 counts related to voter fraud in Lake County. The state charges resulted from a joint investigation conducted by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and the Lake County State's Attorneys Office. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) also provided assistance.

    Maria Azada, 53, of Grayslake, Ill., was arrested March 17 by ICE HSI agents and a Lake County State's Attorneys special investigator. Azada faces 17 felony counts in Lake County Circuit Court of perjury, mutilation of election materials, and tampering with voting machines in connection with illegal voting by a non-U.S. citizen.

    The investigation began in February 2009 when Azada admitted to a USCIS officer during an interview for an immigration benefit that she had voted in an election. It is illegal for foreign nationals to vote in national or state elections in the United States.


    Illegal alien arrested, charged with voter fraud
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    You asked, and now you know. It does happen. (I only posted one. didn't want to do all your work for you

    LAKE COUNTY, Ill. - An illegal alien from the Philippines was arrested Thursday morning on a felony complaint charging her with 17 counts related to voter fraud in Lake County. The state charges resulted from a joint investigation conducted by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and the Lake County State's Attorneys Office. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) also provided assistance.

    Maria Azada, 53, of Grayslake, Ill., was arrested March 17 by ICE HSI agents and a Lake County State's Attorneys special investigator. Azada faces 17 felony counts in Lake County Circuit Court of perjury, mutilation of election materials, and tampering with voting machines in connection with illegal voting by a non-U.S. citizen.

    The investigation began in February 2009 when Azada admitted to a USCIS officer during an interview for an immigration benefit that she had voted in an election. It is illegal for foreign nationals to vote in national or state elections in the United States.


    Illegal alien arrested, charged with voter fraud
    Of course that won't matter to AdamT, he is repeating a stance he has taken before, it was addressed and debunked then. So like many a true internet debater, he just wipes the whole affair from his brain ala pbrauer style and simply repeats the ploy, freshly ignorant about a single thing demonstrated and shown to him when last he trotted out the sad little dog that don't hunt.

    Ah the internet.......................

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Excuse me, but you wanted me to back up my statement about Stevens and that is exactly what I did. That sentence is totally irrelevant to that point.

    And by the way, do you know the main reason why Stevens voted to uphold the law? Because the plaintiffs couldn't produce as much as one example of anyone who was disenfranchised because of that law... NOT ONE. So you can take your "hundreds of thousands -- probably millions" of people, stuff them in a pipe, and smoke em up pal.
    So what, I wasn't supposed to comment on it?! I agree that neither side did a very good job of presenting their case, but there are several major studies, and other court cases, demonstrating that people are disenfranchised by voter ID laws. And just because they may not be unconstitutional doesn't mean that they are a good idea. Personally I think that "not unconstitutional" isn't a great rationale for government regulation.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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