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Thread: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    You might not like his answer and you might be embarrassed that you did not know the facts that he presented about Puerto Rico. Don't make it worse by acting silly.
    You and Duece should be embarrassed using that idiotic example. The answer is NO, Puerto Rico does not vote in federal elections.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    With luck I"m going to be one someday, and my wife is pushing it. I'd better care!

    Are polling places going to take old photo IDs? If not, if they have to be current, then those old photos are out the window. And every time a person moves they will have to get a new ID - no waiting around a few years or until it's convenient. I waited until my next license renewal to change mine when we moved - why hurry?
    What are you asking me that question for? Every time a person moves they have to get a new ID? Tell me, where is it that you don't already have to do this? Like you said before, I'm not sure and I'm not going to bother to look it up, but I'm pretty sure even in MO you have to change your address and get issued a new ID when you move. I'd even bet you have to do so in 30 days. That thing called "common sense" and "tribal knowledge" I was speaking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It is, we don't require it and probably never will.

    Here's the state of affairs here, including the failed attempt in 2006 to make us have a photo ID to vote.
    Lawmakers put photo ID amendment on Mo. ballot

    As for this part of the article: "You can't function in this society without a photo ID," he said. "You need one to rent a movie, get on a plane, cash a check, any number of things."
    Movie? Nope. Netflix doesn't require that.
    Check? What's a check? Oh yeah, that thing I send to my mortgage company each month.
    Plane? Don't fly and have only flown once - before 9/11.
    Any number of things? Last time I showed mine was to a LEO six years ago. LOL!
    Well, and the DMV when I renewed it.

    If that's what you mean by "common sense" I have two examples that defy that right here in my house - except, of course, we do both drive. A lot of people don't.
    I asked you what the source for your claim was?

    Netflix does not need your state ID or state Drivers License, they go for the short hairs of "identity" proof! Your banking and credit details. Which you agree to in order to join.

    I'll tell you this much, if you had to prove who you are in order to vote by supplying the same info you have to in order to join Netflix? I bet we would have some calls for election reform then and from all quarters! LOL.

    Yip checks are those things people use to pay bills like mortgages with. Since you know what one is, what kind of question is what is a check? I get that you are trying to be cute, which is not really working for me, but could you try to at least be informed?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I look at SCOTUS and assume any reasonable State would follow that ruling. I'm still waiting to see how exactly they word our Amendment that's coming up in Nov, maybe. Difference is, WE are voting on it - not the legislature. I might even vote for it once I see the wording.
    I don't think you have a reasonable clue about what the laws in your own state are about IDs. I think this is another example of something you have not "looked up" and "don't plan to". Or called an old friend about yet. Please do.
    Last edited by Gie; 04-24-12 at 01:08 AM.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Republicans are trying to use voter ID laws to suppress Democratic voter turnout. That's why Democrats have a problem with it.
    I thought it was because Republicans are trying to ensure that voters are US citizens. Why in the world aren't Democrats trying to achieve the same thing?

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox View Post
    I thought it was because Republicans are trying to ensure that voters are US citizens. Why in the world aren't Democrats trying to achieve the same thing?
    There are already laws prohibiting non-citizens from voting. By all indications they are working just fine.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox View Post
    I thought it was because Republicans are trying to ensure that voters are US citizens. Why in the world aren't Democrats trying to achieve the same thing?
    Five words my friend.... The ends justifies the means.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I agree. They should have a system in place to verify the identity of those voting via absentee ballot.
    I predict that in states that have passed voter ID laws, the number of absentee voting will go way, way up in this Novembers election. In fact, I'll bet community organizers like ACORN (or what ever they call themselves now) will start pushing absentee voting to try and get their edge back.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    What are you asking me that question for? Every time a person moves they have to get a new ID? Tell me, where is it that you don't already have to do this? Like you said before, I'm not sure and I'm not going to bother to look it up, but I'm pretty sure even in MO you have to change your address and get issued a new ID when you move. I'd even bet you have to do so in 30 days. That thing called "common sense" and "tribal knowledge" I was speaking about.
    https://sa.dor.mo.gov/coa/default.aspx?check=true

    Please see the notification under "Records to be Updated, Driver's License"
    This change includes instruction permits and nondriver licenses. You must complete a Driver License Application at a Missouri License Office if you want your Missouri Driver License to reflect your new address.
    Maybe it's just me but I have a difficult time interpreting that to mean, "You have to get a new license with your new address on it."

    Here's the requirements for proving your current address when you get a license, which is pretty much the same one we use for acceptable identification when voting:
    Missouri Residential Address: You have a variety of options to prove your current address. Examples include a recent utility bill (including phone, electric, gas, water, sewer, and cable), property tax receipt, most recent bank statement, voter ID card, or any official letter issued within the last 30 days by another state or local governmental agency on its letterhead. A Missouri residential address will be required each time you apply to renew a driver license, nondriver license, or instruction permit. If you are under the age of 21 and cannot provide verification of a Missouri residential address, a parent or legal guardian may provide such a document on your behalf.
    • Resident address is the location at which a person has been physically present, and that the person regards as home. A residential address is a person’s true, fixed, principal, and permanent home, to which a person intends to return and remain, even though currently residing elsewhere.
    Maybe you should just accept that not all States are as anal retentive as others. It's fairly common around here for a LEO to ask "Is this your current address?"

    But you were right, it had been awhile since I'd actually checked. Now I have, nothing has changed.

    http://dor.mo.gov/pdf/Chapter1.pdf -> page 12 or PDF Pg 5/15

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    I asked you what the source for your claim was?
    How many more links do you want to the same article in a different paper? They all read pretty much the same:
    A 2009 study by the secretary of state's office estimated around 230,000 Missourians are registered to vote but lack a government-issued photo ID. Many of those would have no problem getting a photo ID, but many others could have financial or other barriers that keep them from doing so, said Laura Egerdal, spokeswoman for Secretary of State Robin Carnahan, who opposes a photo ID requirement to vote. While the proposed amendment would mean the state would pay for photo IDs for these voters, the underlying documents required could be expensive or even impossible to obtain, she said.
    The desenting opinion:
    Stouffer said he has doubts about the secretary of state's figures and that he'd be "really shocked" if more than 200,000 Missourians were registered to vote but didn't have a photo ID.
    It's easy to read between the lines here. If Stouffer & Co (they're the ones pushing the photo ID) thought they could easily show "150,000" or "less than 150,000" or "100,000" then they would have said so. Apparently they can't. I'm guessing 200,000 is pretty close to right. If you have or know of better information about Missouri voters I'd be more than happy to read it. If it's about California or Maine then I don't care because I don't live there.
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    Netflix does not need your state ID or state Drivers License, they go for the short hairs of "identity" proof! Your banking and credit details. Which you agree to in order to join.

    I'll tell you this much, if you had to prove who you are in order to vote by supplying the same info you have to in order to join Netflix? I bet we would have some calls for election reform then and from all quarters! LOL.

    Yip checks are those things people use to pay bills like mortgages with. Since you know what one is, what kind of question is what is a check? I get that you are trying to be cute, which is not really working for me, but could you try to at least be informed?
    "Everybody" has constantly claimed you have to have a photo ID just to get along in today's society and I said that's bull because I do it all the time. Except for the simple fact that I do have a driver's license I would NOT need photo ID to get along in my everyday life.
    - Netflix does not require photo ID.
    - QT does not require photo ID when I fill the tank. (I use my CC*; *debit card, actually, not that it's any of your business).
    - The grocery store will actually hand out extra cash (up to $40) just by using my CC* for a purchase.
    - The only check I write anymore is to my mortgage company, so that's a damn lame excuse for anyone trying to insist people have to have a photo ID to get along in today's society.

    Like I said, I haven't shown anyone my ID since I got pulled over for speeding in 2006. If I wasn't driving I would never need one. Bus passes don't require one, taxi driver's don't require one. All limo companies need is a CC number, so they don't require a photo ID, either. In other words, as you just pointed out, there are other forms of ID, like credit and debit cards.

    -- People may have to use some form of ID to get along in everyday life but a photo ID need not be one of them.

    ((Ed: No, I did not count using my DL for voting because I could just as easily use my free voter ID card, which is not photo ID.))
    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    I don't think you have a reasonable clue about what the laws in your own state are about IDs. I think this is another example of something you have not "looked up" and "don't plan to". Or called an old friend about yet. Please do.
    I may not have been up to date on what SS required in the 1980s since I wasn't there doing it. I finally found someone who was there and did it and asked them what it was like. Then, I did what a lot of people here wouldn't do, admit flat-out that I was wrong. You want me to beg your forgiveness, now?? **** off!

    That doesn't mean I haven't lived a long life, right here within 30 miles of where I was born. You talk about "common sense" and "tribal knowledge", well, there it is. If there had been some major change in ID laws I would have heard about it from simple word of mouth. But I took your advise and looked it up. I provided references to what I looked up. Nothing has changed. (Well, I did find out we can change our address on-line, now. ) Is there anything else about Missouri you'd like help with?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-24-12 at 06:57 AM.
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox View Post
    I thought it was because Republicans are trying to ensure that voters are US citizens. Why in the world aren't Democrats trying to achieve the same thing?
    Some of them are. Over 50% in fact.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    https://sa.dor.mo.gov/coa/default.aspx?check=true

    Please see the notification under "Records to be Updated, Driver's License"

    Maybe it's just me but I have a difficult time interpreting that to mean, "You have to get a new license with your new address on it."

    Here's the requirements for proving your current address when you get a license, which is pretty much the same one we use for acceptable identification when voting:
    Maybe you should just accept that not all States are as anal retentive as others. It's fairly common around here for a LEO to ask "Is this your current address?"

    But you were right, it had been awhile since I'd actually checked. Now I have, nothing has changed.

    http://dor.mo.gov/pdf/Chapter1.pdf -> page 12 or PDF Pg 5/15
    It looks to me like you can't really say if one is or one is not required, ever, to change their address if they live in MO. Based upon your last post, I guess if one moved someone place else, or to a couple of other some places else over the years, you are saying in MO one can still claim their old address from 20 years ago as their current address? I wonder what the people who moved to into an "old" address do when they arrive at your old address, but it is supposed to be theirs? Do they just collect old mail addressed to people that the state thinks still live there and does this mean they can go to the polls and vote as them too? Pay the property taxes on the property for them as well? I mean, just what are you saying is the system in MO, or is there one that addresses this most common place of events? In short, what did you really mean to ask me? I should just accept that some states, like MO as you seem to be arguing, are more ass backwards than others? Seriously, what gave you the idea that I would disagree with that idea?

    Psst, don't look now but your "link" seems to say something entirely different than what you just argued. Why would MO require you as is stated on page 12 of your link, to change your address when you move to a new address, if you are not required to change your address when you move to a new address? Seriously, did you even *think* about this before you posted it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    How many more links do you want to the same article in a different paper? They all read pretty much the same:
    The desenting opinion: It's easy to read between the lines here. If Stouffer & Co (they're the ones pushing the photo ID) thought they could easily show "150,000" or "less than 150,000" or "100,000" then they would have said so. Apparently they can't. I'm guessing 200,000 is pretty close to right. If you have or know of better information about Missouri voters I'd be more than happy to read it. If it's about California or Maine then I don't care because I don't live there.
    I asked you what the source to your claim that "lots of old people don't even have a photo ID" was? Since that was the first time you have submitted any link at all, I guess I'd say it will only take once for you to submit a link to a study or something that supports your claim. Are you saying that the MO drivers license code is now a study complete with "dissenting opinions" or it is an article? You just claimed it is both. Which is it, and where does it support your assertion that most old folks don't have an ID? Not on either of the pages you said it does. Did you actually read this "article/study" you just linked? Because it does not even contain a page 5 of 15, it starts at page 8. Page 12 says that each time you apply for a new DL in MO you have to update your address. Also, the quote you just supplied is not contained within the link you just supplied.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    "Everybody" has constantly claimed you have to have a photo ID just to get along in today's society and I said that's bull because I do it all the time. Except for the simple fact that I do have a driver's license I would NOT need photo ID to get along in my everyday life.
    - Netflix does not require photo ID.
    - QT does not require photo ID when I fill the tank. (I use my CC*; *debit card, actually, not that it's any of your business).
    - The grocery store will actually hand out extra cash (up to $40) just by using my CC* for a purchase.
    - The only check I write anymore is to my mortgage company, so that's a damn lame excuse for anyone trying to insist people have to have a photo ID to get along in today's society.

    Like I said, I haven't shown anyone my ID since I got pulled over for speeding in 2006. If I wasn't driving I would never need one. Bus passes don't require one, taxi driver's don't require one. All limo companies need is a CC number, so they don't require a photo ID, either. In other words, as you just pointed out, there are other forms of ID, like credit and debit cards.

    -- People may have to use some form of ID to get along in everyday life but a photo ID need not be one of them.

    ((Ed: No, I did not count using my DL for voting because I could just as easily use my free voter ID card, which is not photo ID.))
    I may not have been up to date on what SS required in the 1980s since I wasn't there doing it. I finally found someone who was there and did it and asked them what it was like. Then, I did what a lot of people here wouldn't do, admit flat-out that I was wrong. You want me to beg your forgiveness, now?? **** off!

    That doesn't mean I haven't lived a long life, right here within 30 miles of where I was born. You talk about "common sense" and "tribal knowledge", well, there it is. If there had been some major change in ID laws I would have heard about it from simple word of mouth. But I took your advise and looked it up. I provided references to what I looked up. Nothing has changed. (Well, I did find out we can change our address on-line, now. ) Is there anything else about Missouri you'd like help with?
    The rest of your lecture about MO and how people don't need ID is wonderfully non sequitur. Arguing that things need to stay ass backwards like they are in your 30 mile radius is not exactly a very good one for not reforming the requirements to provide proof you are who you say you are when you vote. Even in MO. While I'm thrilled that your discussion with me spurred you to get off your ass and educate yourself about the stuff you speaking about, it does beggar an obvious question. You trying to prove that AdamT is not the only Google Commando that can copy urls to vast amounts of material he is not conversant about and which does not support his internet postures? Lastly, who the hell told you that you needed to beg for forgiveness?

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