Page 41 of 52 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 519

Thread: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

  1. #401
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    My apologies for the brain fart before. I mistook you for another poster, an idiot of one. I can only half blame it on my Droid. Now that I am online with an actual screen that does not fit in my pocket I see my error. If we as one of the richest societies on Earth can't manage this kind of simple fix, well never mind. We can.
    Translation: I thought you were AdamT so I automatically disagreed with you without thinking about what you wrote.

    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  2. #402
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Seen
    08-16-13 @ 02:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    970

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Translation: I thought you were AdamT so I automatically disagreed with you without thinking about what you wrote.

    No you poor Ivy League genius, the translation would be: I've been running from your simple question for the last three days because I don't have an intelligent answer to it. As you can see my "answers" are getting more "genius" and more Ivy League the more I "think" about clever replies that don't answer the question. I wonder why my abortion of a basement thread makes me look like a moron in two different sections of the website, at the same time? I thought it would really cement my place in history as a genius Ivy League "Stellar Debater"! Only it does not seem to have earned me one single fan or "atta boy" much less even a single "like" from a single DP member. This is just how I envisioned it all when I thought up this brilliant series of "arguments" Ivy League Law School Genius sons of Janitors could do a better job of than I can. But I'll keep bringing the "win" on so strong for a few more days. Maybe then it will sink into my peers at DP just how genius an Ivy League "Steller Debater" I truly am!
    Last edited by Gie; 04-22-12 at 04:01 PM.

  3. #403
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I objected to the other study because it looked at only one state in two elections. The Alth study is probably the most thorough on the subject as it looks at TWENTY FIVE different states -- some with new voter ID laws, some with other new restrictions, and some with no changes.
    IIRC you objected to the time frame of the study...not the area covered by it.


    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Well no ****, Sherlock. Any time someone applies data analysis to predict future results they are engaging in conjecture. Projections, by definition, involve conjecture. But this particular author bases her predictions on a broad survey of past results.
    Unless she has the power of divination then no amount of analysis can tell the future. And when people make conjectures those conjectures are always tainted by personal opinion. As such her analysis is bunk.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The article says absolutely nothing of the kind. What an incredibly dishonest appraisal. All the article says is that, statistically, speaking, "minority and foreign-born voters are less likely to have a valid photo-ID. Therefore, these laws place a disproportionate and additional cost to voting for specific segments of the electorate." Nowhere in the article does it say, or even suggest, that it would be impossible for these people to obtain valid ID.
    It may not say it...but it does imply it. And there is no "disproportionate" anything for the simple fact that voter ID laws apply to everyone. And the cost...what cost? The ID's are free.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Wow, another incredibly dishonest (or simply ignorant) analysis. The paper is about statistical methodology and they use two unrelated examples to demonstrate their model.
    And you have no idea if they use real numbers or where they get their numbers from if they are real or even if those numbers are correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And so I see little point in going on. It's perfectly obvious that you either haven't bothered to read the articles, or you did and are simply too closed minded to address them seriously, or you just don't understand them. Either way you are a waste of time.
    At least I am not putting forth studies that are based on conjecture and false assumptions.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  4. #404
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Seen
    08-16-13 @ 02:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    970

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    IIRC you objected to the time frame of the study...not the area covered by it.




    Unless she has the power of divination then no amount of analysis can tell the future. And when people make conjectures those conjectures are always tainted by personal opinion. As such her analysis is bunk.



    It may not say it...but it does imply it. And there is no "disproportionate" anything for the simple fact that voter ID laws apply to everyone. And the cost...what cost? The ID's are free.



    And you have no idea if they use real numbers or where they get their numbers from if they are real or even if those numbers are correct.



    At least I am not putting forth studies that are based on conjecture and false assumptions.
    Bu bu bu bu but people will be "inconvenienced" or something like that. These studies that he found links to with his Google searches are packed full of stats that prove that.
    Last edited by Gie; 04-22-12 at 05:28 PM.

  5. #405
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,590
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Maggie said that states should do "as much as possible to prevent unauthorized voting". My point is that using photo ID does not qualify as doing "as much as possible to prevent unathorized voting". DNA testing, or fingerprint checks, would be far more effective at preventing unauthorized voting". This is no more a slippery slope argument than it is a strawman argument.
    Explain to me how DNA proves citizenship and place of primary residence. Explain to me how fingerprint checks would prove anything at all about those who have never been fingerprinted.

    To register to vote, people must provide two things: Proof of citizenship and that their primary residence is within the county where they are registered. DNA tests and fingerprints do neither.

    You're digging yourself into a deep hole, trying to support the unsupportable just because you blurted it once before thinking it through. Do yourself a favor and move on.

  6. #406
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    IIRC you objected to the time frame of the study...not the area covered by it.
    I objected to both.

    Unless she has the power of divination then no amount of analysis can tell the future. And when people make conjectures those conjectures are always tainted by personal opinion. As such her analysis is bunk.
    Then according to your logic ANY pojection about ANYTHING is utterly without merit. I guess we should stop listening to weather forecasters and economic forecasters and election prognosticators and all the rest. Certainly it would be absurd to listen to anyone who claims that photo IDs will reduce fraud, because that is based on nothing but virtually unsupported "divination" and "conjecture".

    It may not say it...but it does imply it.
    Oh for ****'s sake!

    And you have no idea if they use real numbers or where they get their numbers from if they are real or even if those numbers are correct.
    Actually I have a pretty good idea where they got their numbers, given that it was a peer reviewed and foot-noted article.

    At least I am not putting forth studies that are based on conjecture and false assumptions.
    To the extent that you've put forth anything at all, that's exactly what you've done.
    Last edited by AdamT; 04-22-12 at 06:08 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  7. #407
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Explain to me how DNA proves citizenship and place of primary residence. Explain to me how fingerprint checks would prove anything at all about those who have never been fingerprinted.

    To register to vote, people must provide two things: Proof of citizenship and that their primary residence is within the county where they are registered. DNA tests and fingerprints do neither.

    You're digging yourself into a deep hole, trying to support the unsupportable just because you blurted it once before thinking it through. Do yourself a favor and move on.
    It's pretty simple, really. If you really wanted to do "as much as possible to prevent unauthorized voting", you would have to do two things: one, you would have to ensure that only people who are legally authorized to vote are registered to vote, and two, you would have to ensure that the people actually casting ballots are registered and that they are who they say they are. A photo ID isn't a particularly secure way of ensuring identity, since fake IDs can be easily obtained. Boatloads of highschool and college students have them and use them every day. Faking a DNA test, or a fingerprint test, OTOH, is very difficult. That's why DNA and fingerprints are MUCH better evidence in court than eyewitness identifications, which are notoriously unreliable. This is why, in Florida, you can't just show an ID to take the bar exam. You actually have to go down the police station and have yourself fingerprinted. Then, when you take the exam, you have to put your thumbprint on the exam booklet. IDs are too easy to fake. If you're just using IDs, you aren't doing "as much as possible to prevent unauthorized voting".

    I'll show you mine if you show me yours. After a five second Google search, here are some online websites where you can easily obtain pretty much any kind of fake ID you want:

    Buy Fake ID Online . Com - Where to buy Fake IDs Novelty Fake Drivers License Identification
    Fake ID Pro Fake IDs Novelty IDs Novelty Fake Identification Cards
    Fake ID Cards created through TheIDShop, Novelty ID and False Identification.
    Fake ID Free - Largest Drivers License Card Database
    http://www.youfini****.com/

    Okay, now you post the websites where I can buy fake DNA and fingerprits....



    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  8. #408
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    No you poor Ivy League genius, the translation would be: I've been running from your simple question for the last three days because I don't have an intelligent answer to it. As you can see my "answers" are getting more "genius" and more Ivy League the more I "think" about clever replies that don't answer the question. I wonder why my abortion of a basement thread makes me look like a moron in two different sections of the website, at the same time? I thought it would really cement my place in history as a genius Ivy League "Stellar Debater"! Only it does not seem to have earned me one single fan or "atta boy" much less even a single "like" from a single DP member. This is just how I envisioned it all when I thought up this brilliant series of "arguments" Ivy League Law School Genius sons of Janitors could do a better job of than I can. But I'll keep bringing the "win" on so strong for a few more days. Maybe then it will sink into my peers at DP just how genius an Ivy League "Steller Debater" I truly am!
    Dude, what is with the Ivy League ****? You can't even get your insults right.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  9. #409
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,590
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It's pretty simple, really. If you really wanted to do "as much as possible to prevent unauthorized voting", you would have to do two things: one, you would have to ensure that only people who are legally authorized to vote are registered to vote, and two, you would have to ensure that the people actually casting ballots are registered and that they are who they say they are. A photo ID isn't a particularly secure way of ensuring identity, since fake IDs can be easily obtained. Boatloads of highschool and college students have them and use them every day. Faking a DNA test, or a fingerprint test, OTOH, is very difficult. That's why DNA and fingerprints are MUCH better evidence in court than eyewitness identifications, which are notoriously unreliable. This is why, in Florida, you can't just show an ID to take the bar exam. You actually have to go down the police station and have yourself fingerprinted. Then, when you take the exam, you have to put your thumbprint on the exam booklet. IDs are too easy to fake. If you're just using IDs, you aren't doing "as much as possible to prevent unauthorized voting".

    I'll show you mine if you show me yours. After a five second Google search, here are some online websites where you can easily obtain pretty much any kind of fake ID you want:

    Buy Fake ID Online . Com - Where to buy Fake IDs Novelty Fake Drivers License Identification
    Fake ID Pro Fake IDs Novelty IDs Novelty Fake Identification Cards
    Fake ID Cards created through TheIDShop, Novelty ID and False Identification.
    Fake ID Free - Largest Drivers License Card Database
    http://www.youfini****.com/

    Okay, now you post the websites where I can buy fake DNA and fingerprits....




    In other words, you cannot explain how DNA and fingerprinting can reveal citizenship and primary place of residence, but are too embarrassed to admit it. We understand.

  10. #410
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    In other words, you cannot explain how DNA and fingerprinting can reveal citizenship and primary place of residence, but are too embarrassed to admit it. We understand.
    In other words, I just explained it and you totally punted, even after you totally moved the goal posts. Stay under the floorboards.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

Page 41 of 52 FirstFirst ... 31394041424351 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •