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Thread: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Please show proof that people who lack the ability to easily get a photo i.d. are Democrats. There is no evidence of this. The only votes that would be surpressed by requiring something as simple as a photo i.d. at the voting booth would be dishonest people who have no business voting in the first place.

    Are you saying most of these people are Democrats?
    You think he's passionate about defending this freedom for conservatives?
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Pretending that I agree with you when I've written obvious caveats isn't going to get you very far.
    You can write caveats all day long, but that doesn't change what I said, or the fact you agree that they were not facts.

    As far as the evidence you asked for, I've posted it at least four times now. WTF is up with you people?
    There is no evidence you've posted that shows Republicans support Voter ID laws to screw democrats out of voting.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Here's some more evidence demonstrating that this is a non-issue ... and an attempt to curtail democratic voting:

    The Bush administration was hot and bothered to try to show that election fraud was a problem in the U.S. As mentioned above, Bush's DOJ ran a five-year investigation all across the country that ultimately came up with no evidence of organized electoral fraud. As part of his campaign, Bush requested that the U.S. Election Commission do a study on election fraud. To that end the Commission established a bipartisan team of consultants to study the available evidence.

    The first observation of the working group was as follows:

    1. The main problems today are structural barriers to voting and administrative error. Mr. Perez observed that, in accordance with the research, the biggest issues today are structural barriers to voting, not stealing votes. Election administrators share this view. Election fraud is negligible, and to the extent it occurs, it needs to be prosecutred with stonger criminal laws. The biggest problem is properly preparing people, which is the respnsibility of election administrators. (p. 27)

    http://www.bradblog.com/Docs/EAC_Vot...raftReport.pdf
    And now for the really interesting part. The EAC severely watered down the submitted draft report to suggest that there was more uncertainty about election fraud and intimidation than the report actually found. Critics have charged that the EAC -- which was created in 2002 under the Bush administration and a Republican Congress, of bowing to Republican pressure....

    The U.S. Election Assistance Commission (EAC), a federal panel charged with conducting elections research, misrepresented the findings of a bipartisan team of experts on the highly politicized topic of voter fraud. In a report contracted by the EAC, the experts found little evidence of voter fraud across the nation;1 the EAC replaced these findings with language injecting uncertainty into the pervasiveness of fraud and downplaying the findings on voter intimidation.2 As one author states, "the conclusions that we found in our research and included in our report were revised by the EAC, without explanation or discussion with me, my co-author, or the general public."3


    The EAC reduced the draft to half of its length and only released a final version after receiving a petition with 13,000 signatories, sponsored by the People for the American Way.4 Among the substantive changes, the draft report's conclusion that "there is widespread but not unanimous agreement that there is little polling place fraud,"5 was altered by the EAC to read "there is a great deal of debate on the pervasiveness of fraud."6 The EAC replaced the section of the draft stating "there is evidence of some continued outright intimidation and suppression … a number of people also raise the problem of poll workers engaging in harassment of minority voters,"7 with this language: "intimidation is also a topic of some debate because there is little agreement concerning what constitutes actionable voter intimidation."8

    Election Panel Delays, Edits Reports on Voter Fraud | Union of Concerned Scientists
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    You can write caveats all day long, but that doesn't change what I said, or the fact you agree that they were not facts.



    There is no evidence you've posted that shows Republicans support Voter ID laws to screw democrats out of voting.
    I took exception to a lot of what you wrote, which is obvious from reading my post. It's just dishonest for you to pretend that I agreed with you, and you know it. Smacks of desperation.

    Obviously Republicans aren't going to admit that they don't think there's a real fraud problem and they're really only interested in suppressing Democratic voter turnout. They're not THAT stupid.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    And this....

    The EAC is also being criticized for failing to adopt a second commissioned report on the effects of voter identification laws. This report, prepared by Rutgers University's Eagleton Institute, concluded that voter identification requirements and other laws intended to address voter fraud can reduce turnout and particularly disenfranchise minorities.18 The EAC delayed action for nine months and later released it unofficially, citing concerns "regarding the data, analysis, and statistical methodology" of the report.19

    Election Panel Delays, Edits Reports on Voter Fraud | Union of Concerned Scientists
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I took exception to a lot of what you wrote, which is obvious from reading my post. It's just dishonest for you to pretend that I agreed with you, and you know it. Smacks of desperation.
    It's real simple... Are the 5 points you posted fact or speculation/opinion?

    Except for #2, they are speculation/opinion as I posted. With the exception of #5, you did not refute that. All you did was make excuses for why posted them.

    It comes down to "YES" or "NO"... Yes, they are factual or no they are not factual.

    Obviously Republicans aren't going to admit that they don't think there's a real fraud problem and they're really only interested in suppressing Democratic voter turnout. They're not THAT stupid.
    And obviously you don't have one stinking shred of concrete evidence to back up that accusation, yet you still proclaim it as fact. It is an opinion... a partisan, politically motivated, steaming pile of liberal conjecture designed to justify your opposition to preventing voter fraud.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I took exception to a lot of what you wrote, which is obvious from reading my post. It's just dishonest for you to pretend that I agreed with you, and you know it. Smacks of desperation.

    Obviously Republicans aren't going to admit that they don't think there's a real fraud problem and they're really only interested in suppressing Democratic voter turnout. They're not THAT stupid.
    And most democrats aren't stupid enough to trust people to vote without some form of photo identification either.

    Poll shows majority of Americans think voter ID laws are necessary | TheBlaze.com

    “Overall, 70 percent of Americans say voter ID laws are needed to stop illegal voting. That’s far more than the 26 percent who see the laws as a hindrance to legal voting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Adam, you are really a piece of work. You use conjecture and partisan opinion, to try and prove your opinions and partisan conjecture are factual.

    You just keep spinning in circles and frankly, I've come to the conclusion you are incapable of honest discussion. All you do is keep posting the same baseless garbage post after post, irregardless of whether it's applicable, credible or factual.

    The day you discover that political talking points are a lousy substitute for logic and simple common sense, get back to me and we'll have a real discussion.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Adam, you are really a piece of work. You use conjecture and partisan opinion, to try and prove your opinions and partisan conjecture are factual.

    You just keep spinning in circles and frankly, I've come to the conclusion you are incapable of honest discussion. All you do is keep posting the same baseless garbage post after post, irregardless of whether it's applicable, credible or factual.

    The day you discover that political talking points are a lousy substitute for logic and simple common sense, get back to me and we'll have a real discussion.
    You've proven yourself to be so dishonest on this subject that I'm afraid I just have to tune you out. If anyone thinks I've agreed with Grim's theory, raise your hand.

    If you want to be taken seriously, address the election commission report and subsequent expurgation of same. It's that new information you've been craving (but apparently ignoring).
    Last edited by AdamT; 04-21-12 at 02:58 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    People too incompetent to have a photo ID are the ones least likely to be able to make a well reasoned choice.

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