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Thread: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Exactly. This perfectly encapsulates the "well duh"-it-just-makes-sense argument from the right. In truth, however, what may appear to make sense on the surface often does not make sense when you look below the surface.
    Yep: "Well, duh...if you want to vote in the United States of America, you should actually be able to prove you're who you say you are." Well. Duh.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Yep: "Well, duh...if you want to vote in the United States of America, you should actually be able to prove you're who you say you are." Well. Duh.
    Exactly. Sounds obvious, but since there isn't actually a problem with voter impersonation, it's quite idiotic to waste millions of dollars on these unnecessary laws.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Exactly. Sounds obvious, but since there isn't actually a problem with voter impersonation, it's quite idiotic to waste millions of dollars on these unnecessary laws.
    Your repeated and only complaint that one should have to prove a problem before requiring something as simple as identification is absurd.

    Prove there's a problem that justifies having to identify one's self as a worker in the control room of a nuclear reactor.
    Prove there's a problem that justifies having to show one's identification to use a pool pass.

    You guys are incredible.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Your repeated and only complaint that one should have to prove a problem before requiring something as simple as identification is absurd.

    Prove there's a problem that justifies having to identify one's self as a worker in the control room of a nuclear reactor.
    Prove there's a problem that justifies having to show one's identification to use a pool pass.

    You guys are incredible.
    I can't imagine what could more basic than requiring a problem to be shown before spending millions of dollars and passing new regulations to address the supposed problem. I think it's literally insane to suggest otherwise.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    However, you have correctly illustrated the major fault in your right wing brethrens' argument: namely, that there is no need to prove voter fraud because common sense tells them that it is happening. Which is exact same fault that I was pointing out, but perhaps in an insufficient number of monosyllabic words.
    Just look at the facts, and then tell me what they say to you:

    1. Does voter fraud happen? Yes
    2. Is it proved and prosecuted very often? No.
    3. Is voter fraud difficult to catch? Yes
    4. Even if detected after the fact, is it difficult to catch the person(s) involved? Yes, very difficult.
    5. Is it easy without having to show an ID, to vote under a name other than your own? Yes, as the latest hidden videos have shown.
    6. Has there been wide spread cases of voter registration fraud in recent years? Yes, ACORN has faced legal action in at least 13 states since 2004.
    7. When you combine #5 and #6, would it be easy and low risk to commit voter fraud? Yes.
    8. Is a legal ID required to receive: legal employment, A Pell grant, student loan, college enrollment, welfare assistance, government housing, food stamps, SCHIP benefits, Medicare, Medicaid, ACCESS, subsidized prescription drugs and Social Security retirement/disability benefits? Yes
    9. Does #8 apply to most elderly, poor and young people? Yes
    10. Are those the same groups of people that the left argues will be disenfranchised? Yes


    This is where common sense comes into play, and it says to me quite clearly that requiring a legal ID to vote would substantially protect the integrity of our election process... Something that every American, regardless of political affiliation or ideology, should whole heartedly support. It also tells me that since it's not a hardship requiring a legal ID for all of the benefits listed in #8, it's also not a hardship to require one to vote.

    So using common sense, what does all that information tell you?

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Exactly. Sounds obvious, but since there isn't actually a problem with voter impersonation, it's quite idiotic to waste millions of dollars on these unnecessary laws.
    The ease of voter impersonation and the low risk make it a problem.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    So, you're saying that the world is flat. Interesting. . . .

    However, you have correctly illustrated the major fault in your right wing brethrens' argument: namely, that there is no need to prove voter fraud because common sense tells them that it is happening. Which is exact same fault that I was pointing out, but perhaps in an insufficient number of monosyllabic words.
    i never said that,now you are using a strawman.

    do you ever stop using logical fallacies?
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    However, you have correctly illustrated the major fault in your right wing brethrens' argument: namely, that there is no need to prove voter fraud because common sense tells them that it is happening. Which is exact same fault that I was pointing out, but perhaps in an insufficient number of monosyllabic words.
    Wrongo, Karl. It has nothing to do with voter fraud...whether it exists or does not exist. No one knows how much voter fraud exists. It has to do with common sense which, on this issue, the left is particularly and purposefully lacking.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Wrongo, Karl. It has nothing to do with voter fraud...whether it exists or does not exist. No one knows how much voter fraud exists. It has to do with common sense which, on this issue, the left is particularly and purposefully lacking.
    So in the cases where the poor can't afford the fees to obtain the required documents you would have no problem ponying up the money to pay those fees?
    (Ed: Or better yet, just not charging them in the first place for the documents?)


    Personally, I think we ought to throw the whole ID system out and go to biometrics but people would really start howling, then.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-20-12 at 03:02 PM.
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So in the cases where the poor can't afford the fees to obtain the required documents you would have no problem ponying up the money to pay those fees?
    No problem on my end.
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