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Thread: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

  1. #221
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    Actually no you have not posted three studies packed with statistics that support your argument. You posted one link to a PDF that contains the results of multiple studies and that is a bit of a mixed bag as far as results go. Given that you dismiss out of hand everything shown to you, you really are just interested in stating your obstinate opinion and basically doing the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting nannananabobobo, I can't hear you. Over and over again, and you have been doing this across several threads for over a month.

    Posting links to articles and pieces from the NY Times does not three linked studies packed with stats that support your ever shifting and changing "argument" make.
    Ay yay yay. I posted this study: http://jrnetsolserver.shorensteincen...nd-Turnout.pdf and this study: http://brennan.3cdn.net/92635ddafbc0..._i3m6bjdeh.pdf (or it may have been a related Brennan Center study), and another one dealing with voter attitude about the effectiveness of voter ID laws.

    I could add these:

    The Disproportionate Impact of Photo-ID Laws on the Minority Electorate « Latino Decisions

    http://brennan.3cdn.net/a5782740e418..._snm6bhfwg.pdf

    http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/...RE/Hershey.pdf

    http://brennan.3cdn.net/0340ec86d18a..._vqm6bne7f.pdf

    etc., etc.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Uh. Poor argument. Murders happen. We actively pursue murderers moreso than any other crime. You odds of being caught for murder are much higher than committing voter fraud. Furthermore, are you aware of the number of crimes committed in the United States every year that laws fail to prevent?
    There are fewer than five homicides per 100,000 people per year. Often the motives for homicide are FAR stronger than any possible motive to commit voter fraud.

    The point is that just because something may be easy to do doesn't mean that people will do it. The laws against voter fraud are a strong deterrent, and there is very little to gain by violating the law. It is extremely rare for federal elections to be decided by fewer than a few thousand votes. Who in his right mind is going to risk a felony conviction to do something that will probably have absolutely no impact? It would be robbing a bank to steal the pennies from the take a penny leave a penny dish.
    Last edited by AdamT; 04-19-12 at 05:57 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I never claimed that there is no voter fraud. But your example doesn't support your argument as it involved absentee ballots, and like almost all voter fraud it is not something that would have been prevented by these photo ID laws.
    WTF?? Dude, I didn't make any argument at all. You asked for an actual example of voter fraud. I gave you one. As for the "absentee ballots" crap, in California (and I hope in every other state) ID and proof of citizenship/residence is required to register to vote. Once you are properly registered, you can vote either at the polling place or via absentee ballot. In this case, illegal voters were illegally registered to vote.

    See, that's another way that you can tell that Republican politicians don't really give a **** about voter fraud. It happens, but almost all of it is the result of manipulation of ballots by poll workers and fraudulent absentee ballots. So why aren't those issues being addressed? Why is all this effort being expended on a type of fraud that is virtually nonexistent? Pretty simple, really. Photo ID laws reduce Democratic participation.
    Again WTF??? Dude!! In the example I gave, it was the Democratics that were caught stuffing the ballot box, and the Republicans were complaining!

    Try actually reading before you, y'know, post the wrong stuff.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There are fewer than five homicides per 100,000 people per year. Often the motives for homicide are FAR stronger than any possible motive to commit voter fraud.

    The point is that just because something may be easy to do doesn't mean that people will do it. The laws against voter fraud are a strong deterrent, and there is very little to gain by violating the law. It is extremely rare for federal elections to be decided by fewer than a few thousand votes. Who in his right mind is going to risk a felony conviction to do something that will probably have absolutely no impact?
    You just don't get it, do you? It doesn't make any difference "who in his right mind is going to risk a felony conviction...." Voters deserve to have integrity in the system. Every single voter should be able to prove (and should have to prove) they are who they say they are. The effects of not having a system in place that assures that very thing are so deleterious as to preclude any argument against it.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And again, no you did not post three studies packed with stats that support your argument. You posted two links in this thread, one to a study conducted by the Bush admin and one to the Brennan Center. The one from the Brennan center is a mixed bag as far as results go, partially confirming some things you have claimed, partially debunking just as many. You have also begged posters here to show you "one" example of voter fraud and guess what? Several posters, including myself have shown you several examples of voter fraud. You have been shown articles, news reports and even some of those YouTube videos you like to cite as *proof* in other threads. Not surprisingly your argument just "changes" when you get shown an inconvenient fact that does not fit your view. In fact, the one I supplied was an actual "conviction" for voter fraud, which you claimed did not exist and here you are still acting like it does not. Of course admitting that there have been convictions for voter fraud means you have to admit it exist in the first place. So we are right back to your child like insistence that there is no voter fraud, and you'll blithely ignore anything shown to you that debunks the idiotic stance.

    Once again, any fact or reply to you that does not fit your cherry picked ever shifting, ever morphing and changing argument you simply dismiss and follow up with another mental enema that resets your mind back to blank. Which explains why here we are a month later and three or four threads on this topic are littered with all manner of reports, studies and evidence that debunks your puerile stance that there is no voter fraud and if there is it is not serious enough to warrant doing anything about it. Where laws have been passed the warned about "disenfranchisement" of "hundreds of thousands" of voters has simply not occurred.

    Clearly, just on this page, you have again been reminded that you were given exactly what you asked other posters for, like DiAnna. There is a reason why this stuff escapes you and you are able to ignore it all and just keep repeating the same drek over and over again..................
    lather rinse repeat adamT.jpg
    Last edited by Gie; 04-19-12 at 06:26 PM.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    So by saying the law does not stop me i was actually saying that the law does stop me? Make more sense or give up.

    Maybe a 3rd time will be the charm...c'mon dice, muci needs a new pair of glasses....


    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    More irony! You TOTALLY skipped over the point THAT WAS MADE.

    You just said:

    "I dont do it because I am not willing to commit voter fraud"

    followed by:

    "Nothing prevents me from doing it is the point."


    I suppose if you don't know the meaning of irony (obviously), it would seem "cryptic".

    Thanks again.
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Maybe a 3rd time will be the charm...c'mon dice, muci needs a new pair of glasses....
    Still failing to show where I said the law prevents me from committing voter fraud. Keep fishing.
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    You'd think something like a law mandating an ID to help prevent voter fraud would have nothing to do with democrat and republican, and would 100% have bipartisan support. The fact that this issue is divided staunchly between the left and right with one side seemingly 100% in favor and the other side 100% against is worrisome to me.

    The heart of this country, the backbone of this country, is the integrity of our voting system. It's what makes us a democratic republic. It IS America. I mean we have "Get out and vote" campaigns to get people to exercise their right to vote. Why someone would oppose a simple law that doesn't cost anything to enforce (where this thing about taxpayer dollars comes in is beyond me. If I have to pay for an ID for someone to vote, then god bless 'em I'd do it. I'd rather buy them an ID then pay for their welfare) and honestly costs the taxpayer pennies when compared to the tremendous expenditures of the federal gov't that the left has supported lately, it's mind boggling. When it comes to voter ID's all of a sudden the left is worried about cost, yet with the biggest health insurance bill ever passed, cost wasn't an issue.

    I just don't get it. I just can't put the pieces together in my head the way a liberal can.

  9. #229
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Ay yay yay. I posted this study: http://jrnetsolserver.shorensteincen...nd-Turnout.pdf and this study: http://brennan.3cdn.net/92635ddafbc0..._i3m6bjdeh.pdf (or it may have been a related Brennan Center study), and another one dealing with voter attitude about the effectiveness of voter ID laws.
    Your first link there does the same thing that you disregarded another study a few posts back for doing. Only analyzing 2 elections. Your second link states....

    States have changed their laws so rapidly that no single analysis has assessed the overall impact of such moves. Although it is too early to quantify how the changes will impact voter turnout, they will be a hindrance to many voters at a time when the United States continues to turn out less than two thirds of its eligible citizens in presidential elections and less than half in midterm elections.
    Which basically boils down to them talking out their ass and have no actual proof themselves past that paragraph. IE its all conjecture, opinions etc etc.

    These people are basically trying to say that if they don't have ID now then they cannot get ID period. Idiotic.

    Wow...this link jumps from religion and abortion and voter ID requirements....just...wow.

    This one was going all over the place too. From accusing churches of affecting turnout rate (both positve and negative) to percieved costs. What it boils down to is that anything and everything can affect voter turnout...both positively and negatively.....even things that have nothing to do with voter ID.

    This one is all about perceptions and how it affects voter turnout. It even makes the case that just the "idea" of voter fraud can reduce voter participation.
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    You'd think something like a law mandating an ID to help prevent voter fraud would have nothing to do with democrat and republican, and would 100% have bipartisan support. The fact that this issue is divided staunchly between the left and right with one side seemingly 100% in favor and the other side 100% against is worrisome to me.

    The heart of this country, the backbone of this country, is the integrity of our voting system. It's what makes us a democratic republic. It IS America. I mean we have "Get out and vote" campaigns to get people to exercise their right to vote. Why someone would oppose a simple law that doesn't cost anything to enforce (where this thing about taxpayer dollars comes in is beyond me. If I have to pay for an ID for someone to vote, then god bless 'em I'd do it. I'd rather buy them an ID then pay for their welfare) and honestly costs the taxpayer pennies when compared to the tremendous expenditures of the federal gov't that the left has supported lately, it's mind boggling. When it comes to voter ID's all of a sudden the left is worried about cost, yet with the biggest health insurance bill ever passed, cost wasn't an issue.

    I just don't get it. I just can't put the pieces together in my head the way a liberal can.
    According to polls on the issue I have seen it is supported by majority of democratic and republican voters. There are just more dems who oppose it. But something like 54% of democratic voters want to see ID laws passed.
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