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Thread: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

  1. #111
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    The scarecrow called he wants you to quit knocking him ass over teakettle so you can make a bad argument.

    We dont know how much fraudulent voting goes on because there is very little effort made in prosecuting it unless its so blatant it cant be ignored. So how much fraud would be prevented is not something that is easily measured, despite what you may believe.
    Uh, the truth called and he wants you to shut the **** up.

    Under Bush, the DOJ made election fraud a major priority over the course of five years, and their wide-ranging investigations yielded absolutely no evidence of organized fraud.

    WASHINGTON, April 11 — Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/wa...pagewanted=all
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    I don't like Voter ID laws because they do not solve the real problem.

    What you get is illegals with a photo ID voting.

    The real solution is to allow all States to require proof of citizenship to register to vote. That along with a purge of voting records to weed out the dead (sorry Cook County) would go a long ways to solving a lot of this voter fraud.

    Oh, yes, only voting on paper ballots would help too.




    Having said this, till a real solution can be put into force, Voter ID is better than nothing.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    As I mentioned above, photo ID laws have absolutely nothing to do with fair elections. In fact they make elections FAR less fair insofar as they disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people in order to stop a handful of fraudulent votes. Wait, I have an idea to stop 100% of election fraud! Let's just not have any more elections!
    And once again we return to your basic dishonest fallacy. You have been shown repeatedly in several threads that in the states where voter ID laws were passed, voter participation went up, not down. You would recall this if you were a stellar or even obtuse debater. This is due to you taking the pbrauer route and performing a mental enema upon yourself each time you have had that pointed out to you. You just rinse and repeat. Over and over.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    I don't like Voter ID laws because they do not solve the real problem.

    What you get is illegals with a photo ID voting.

    The real solution is to allow all States to require proof of citizenship to register to vote. That along with a purge of voting records to weed out the dead (sorry Cook County) would go a long ways to solving a lot of this voter fraud.

    Oh, yes, only voting on paper ballots would help too.




    Having said this, till a real solution can be put into force, Voter ID is better than nothing.
    Again -- voter fraud is not a real issue in this country, at least in federal elections. But if anyone was actually serious about it, they would be addressing inconsistency and weakness in absentee ballot and polling procedures -- not voter imperonation.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Again -- voter fraud is not a real issue in this country, at least in federal elections. But if anyone was actually serious about it, they would be addressing inconsistency and weakness in absentee ballot and polling procedures -- not voter imperonation.
    Rinse and repeat.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    And once again we return to your basic dishonest fallacy. You have been shown repeatedly in several threads that in the states where voter ID laws were passed, voter participation went up, not down. You would recall this if you were a stellar or even obtuse debater. This is due to you taking the pbrauer route and performing a mental enema upon yourself each time you have had that pointed out to you. You just rinse and repeat. Over and over.
    I've posted three studies on this subject which you should read if you want to be taken seriously. I'm chalking up your nonsense to this point to ignorance rather than dishonesty, but you're on report.

    I'll give you the nutshell version: generally voter participation does not fall immediately when these laws are passed because they are attended with a lot of publicity, education campaigns, and concerted efforts to register voters. But after a couple of years those efforts fade and the voter participation rate starts to slide.

    This Essay supports previous studies in finding that voter ID laws
    impose a real burden on voter turnout. Based on my finding that states with
    voter ID laws experienced a 1.6 to 2.2 percentage point decline in 2006 voter
    turnout, 3 to 4.5 million voters were disenfranchised by the laws. As Justice
    Souter reasoned in his Crawford dissent,121 where a court finds evidence of a
    real burden on voters, a state must advance stronger interests than those
    relied on by Indiana in Crawford to defend its contested voting regulation.122
    Otherwise, voter ID laws fail the Court’s balancing test and must be found
    unconstitutional. In future as-applied challenges to voter ID laws, petitioners
    should use studies such as this one to quantify the nontrivial burden of
    disenfranchisement.
    My results do suggest a possible policy fix: states that adopted voter ID
    laws most recently did not experience a decline in turnout. I posit that news
    coverage and state-sponsored public outreach reminded voters to go to the
    polls on Election Day with proper ID. However, when these efforts fade, the
    disenfranchising effects of voter ID laws remain. States may be able to
    counter the effects of ID laws with additional outreach.

    http://jrnetsolserver.shorensteincen...nd-Turnout.pdf
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I've posted three studies on this subject which you should read if you want to be taken seriously. I'm chalking up your nonsense to this point to ignorance rather than dishonesty, but you're on report.

    I'll give you the nutshell version: generally voter participation does not fall immediately when these laws are passed because they are attended with a lot of publicity, education campaigns, and concerted efforts to register voters. But after a couple of years those efforts fade and the voter participation rate starts to slide.
    You've been ignoring every study that debunks your argument that voter ID laws will "disenfranchise" hundreds of thousands of voters for what, like a month now? Across three or four threads?

    Here is the reason in a nutshell:
    lather rinse repeat adamT.jpg

    The hackery is strong with you.

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    You've been ignoring every study that debunks your argument that voter ID laws will "disenfranchise" hundreds of thousands of voters for what, like a month now? Across three or four threads?

    The hackery is strong with you.
    I have yet to see one study that shows that, long term, voter ID laws do not suppress the vote. You seem to spend a lot of time claiming to have made points that you have failed to make. But by all means, do post those studies and I'll be happy to comment on them.



    btw, it's quite funny that you continue to ignore the studies I've posted, including the quote above, while pretending that I've ignored something you posted. Bravo.
    Last edited by AdamT; 04-19-12 at 02:20 AM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Can you point to even one case where it was proven that an illegal alien voted?
    Sure....



    Want more?
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    Re: Appeals Court Upholds Arizona's Voter ID Requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I have yet to see one study that shows that, long term, voter ID laws do not suppress the vote. You seem to spend a lot of time claiming to have made points that you have failed to make. But by all means, do post those studies and I'll be happy to comment on them.



    btw, it's quite funny that you continue to ignore the studies I've posted, including the quote above, while pretending that I've ignored something you posted. Bravo.
    So now you want "long term" studies as versus realistic ones based upon as you said earlier, the "reality" that the only studies available owing to actual TIME in the real world, completely debunk you? So what, you can perform yet another mental enema upon yourself and just regurgitate your sad little shtick? How about we let you drag it out some more, pose as if you have not been shown these studies ever and there weally weally are not links or evidence of this at all? Is that what you want to do now? Do let me know, this is like clubbing baby seals.

    Once again, in the second thread today, despite the fact you claim I am ignoring you and your various "arguments" the essential fact escapes your all seeing eye, that you are actually responding to and conversing with a person who is supposedly ignoring you and not calling out your hackish BS. I also find something funny, not only do you liberally borrow pbrauer's mental mind wipe enema penchant that resets your "hard drive" to baby like ignorant over and over, but you also are lifting his "I have not seen it" brain fart following your internal mental reset each time you exit a thread about this topic too. I think what you meant to say was you have yet to see "it" in this loop, ya know since you erased everything you were shown, linked and exposed to in the last one? Yeah, it gets kind of loopy spinning all the time huh?
    Last edited by Gie; 04-19-12 at 02:41 AM.

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