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Thread: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

  1. #241
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, you are asking me to support your arguments, I won't. I have countered your arguments, you cannot show anything to back your claims after repeated requests. Now you are asking the same questions of me that have already been answered, so why would my answering them again a second time do any good. You want me to go back, but here you are repeating what has already been debated. I know this game, it played on forums like this where comments get buried, where a poster can ask the same thing again and act as if it has not been covered.

    I already showed how it causes increased inequality, you won't back your claim that a flat tax decreases inequality in wealth. You have not shown it in this thread, you have provided nothing to back your claim.

    Beyond this, you are totally wrong on the effect of a flat 30% on middle earners. It doubles their tax rate. It is worse for lower income earners, it triples their tax rate. This proves without my showing you documentation that it makes wealth inequality greater.
    Answer the question or quit talking to me. If you know what i am arguing for, tell me. Because I dont think you do. I think you are assuming many things about my argument.
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    On income equality, it wouldn't because people will have the same amount taken out. However, after all that's said and done, the poor will have an even lower % of disposable income while the rich will have a much higher % of disposable income due to a flat tax. That will lead to an even greater gap in classes which would be a negative effect.

    The main people that would benefit from a flat tax is the rich.

    Only if you let them continue to exploit loopholes. You remove their loopholes and make them pay 30% on their total earning they will be paying far more in taxes than they do. This isnt about taxing disposable income. The gap will close some because the rich will be paying more in taxes. I dont see how that benefits the rich.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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  3. #243
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Muciti, can you tell me what YOUR effective tax rate is for 2011? Mine was ~16%
    Last edited by Chiefgator; 04-17-12 at 07:53 PM.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

  4. #244
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Only if you let them continue to exploit loopholes. You remove their loopholes and make them pay 30% on their total earning they will be paying far more in taxes than they do. This isnt about taxing disposable income. The gap will close some because the rich will be paying more in taxes. I dont see how that benefits the rich.
    Here's the issue. I would be all for discussing a flat tax, when the issue of welfare reform was done.

    However, right now, the poor are already (if they aren't on welfare) working min wage or close to min wage jobs. If you increase their tax from 0 to 30% you are going to swamp and kill the welfare system.

    The rich have a higher % of disposable income, so while they will be paying more it won't affect them nearly as much as the poor so the gap will widen IMO

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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    So what? They still have more disposable income than they know what to do with?
    And the government knows better what to do with it

    This attitude, a trademark of the folks that support Obama, will doom the Republic.

  6. #246
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    On income equality, it wouldn't because people will have the same amount taken out. However, after all that's said and done, the poor will have an even lower % of disposable income while the rich will have a much higher % of disposable income due to a flat tax. That will lead to an even greater gap in classes which would be a negative effect.

    The main people that would benefit from a flat tax is the rich.
    I have a really wild idea...the government could stop ****ing over the private sector and allow middle class workers advance themselves.

    I know, it's outrageous that the government stop trying to fix everything, but I think we've seen how much they really fix, in the long run.
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Here's the issue. I would be all for discussing a flat tax, when the issue of welfare reform was done.

    However, right now, the poor are already (if they aren't on welfare) working min wage or close to min wage jobs. If you increase their tax from 0 to 30% you are going to swamp and kill the welfare system.

    The rich have a higher % of disposable income, so while they will be paying more it won't affect them nearly as much as the poor so the gap will widen IMO
    Every Flat-Tax and Fair Tax scheme allows for a basic deduction such that anyone remotely in the category you describe pays nothing in such tax.

    Do we have any liberals around here who have some self respect ? Or is it all this envy crap ?

  8. #248
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I have a really wild idea...the government could stop ****ing over the private sector and allow middle class workers advance themselves.

    I know, it's outrageous that the government stop trying to fix everything, but I think we've seen how much they really fix, in the long run.
    How is the government holding back the middle class? The stagnation in middle class income we're seeing currently is simply the predictable effects of a recession.

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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Only if you let them continue to exploit loopholes. You remove their loopholes and make them pay 30% on their total earning they will be paying far more in taxes than they do. This isnt about taxing disposable income. The gap will close some because the rich will be paying more in taxes. I dont see how that benefits the rich.
    Behold the grand fallacy. That its the loopholes that causes the gap in income and wealth.

    Nope. Its the growth of government. All government costs flow downhill. Just like **** from the toilet to the septic tank. The "rich" will pass on every added tax to those downstream. Every time Obama wants to raise taxes on the rich, or evil corporations, it will flow downhill until it hits those who cannot pass it on. The middle and lower classes. The bigger the government, the more crap will be passed on, and the greater the gap will become.

    And the liberal lemmings just keep foaming with the class envy stupidity.
    Cause its all they know to do.

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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What is messed up, is that you think the French and Soviet Revolutions were revolts against rich folks, when in actuality, they were revolts against greedy governments.
    The Causes of the French Revolution were the significant historical factors that led to the revolution of 1789 in France.
    Although France in 1785 faced economic difficulties, mostly concerning the equitability of taxation, it was one of the richest and most powerful nations of Europe.[1] The French people also enjoyed more political freedom and a lower incidence of arbitrary punishment than any of their fellow Europeans. However, Louis XVI, his ministers, and the widespread French nobility had become immensely unpopular. This was a consequence of the fact that peasants and, to a lesser extent, the bourgeoisie, were burdened with ruinously high taxes levied to support wealthy aristocrats and their sumptuous, often gluttonous, lifestyles.[2]

    http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/9602/pg9602.html
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