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Thread: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

  1. #141
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    The Libby/Demos of today are not Kennedy Democrats.
    Cars, baseball cards, Hershey bars, bathing suits - hell, the whole damn nation has changed since Kennedy. And in othe breaking news, the suns tonight in the west.
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I really think you are confused...... I never said this, I want this, I am happy to pay 15% on my rich mans salary and happy for TNE to pay 15% on his poor mans salary, yes I would pay more, but that's fair. 15% across the board...




    As I said, get rid of all deductions ALL loopholes and charge 15%.... TNE was claiming I wanted folks to pay more, I countered proving I want them to pay less. He failed.
    That certainly is not what I took from some of your posts.

    In any case, the same across the board is not happening. Neither side will agree to that it seems and it is not coming any time soon. While the buffet rule is not perfect it is a step in the right direction.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Cars, baseball cards, Hershey bars, bathing suits - hell, the whole damn nation has changed since Kennedy. And in othe breaking news, the suns tonight in the west.
    The sun eh? Prove it!
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    That certainly is not what I took from some of your posts.

    You completley misread me then, no worries, it happens.... I am for a flat tax, the only "deductions" I would consider would be for those making less than 10k a year, single mothers, active students. That's it. everyone pays the same percentage of thier income. so I would pay more than most, but we all pay the same percentage. That is fair.



    In any case, the same across the board is not happening. Neither side will agree to that it seems and it is not coming any time soon. While the buffet rule is not perfect it is a step in the right direction.

    I agree, it won't happen until we have a catostrophic failure of our economy. and even then it's not a guarantee.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  5. #145
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    The Libby/Demos of today are not Kennedy Democrats.
    The notion of Kennedy as supply-side forerunner is a powerful myth, but it is a myth. Context is key. Conservatives love to quote a speech Kennedy gave at the Economic Club of New York in December 1962. Here's one quote—I've italicized the crucial part often left out: "Our present tax system, developed as it was, in good part, during World War II to restrain growth, exerts too heavy a drag on growth in peace time; that it siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power; that it reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking." JFK was not expounding an implacable economic philosophy; he was speaking about a very specific circumstance. The top marginal tax rate was 91 percent, which JFK wanted reduced to a "more sensible" 65 percent. Compare that with today's 35 percent top rate, and ask: If supply-siders are so enamored of JFK's tax policies, would they advocate a return to a "more sensible" 65 percent top rate? Applying Kennedy's tax talk to the current structure, JFK biographer Robert Dallek says, is like comparing "apples and watermelons."


    Another important piece of context is the thinking behind the tax cuts. Kennedy's economic policies were rooted in a Keynesian belief in the stimulative effects of budget deficits. While FDR and his aides had embraced countercyclical deficits as necessary in times of recession or depression, Kennedy was the first to advocate planned deficits in a time of neither war nor economic emergency. The aim was for the tax cuts to stimulate demand, driving the economy from the bottom up.

    Republicans, by contrast, argued that while tax cuts were desirable, running an $11 billion deficit, "with no hope of a balanced budget for the foreseeable future, is both morally and fiscally wrong." That balanced-budget fixation was the ruling GOP philosophy until the rise of supply-side economics, which saw tax cuts as a way to boost investment (the supply side versus the Keynesian demand side) by helping the wealthy and business. Deficits were handled with the magical declaration that tax cuts pay for themselves.
    It's a notion that the new House GOP majority has taken to bizarre and irresponsible extremes, eliminating "pay-go" rules mandating that new tax cuts or new spending be offset by tax increases or spending cuts. Instead the House now has "cut-go" rules, which require only that new spending be offset with spending cuts—tax cuts need not be offset and tax increases don't count as offsets. This from the party that oversaw deficit explosions in the Reagan and George W. Bush years, then claimed the mantle of fiscal responsibility in last year's elections. At least JFK and his partisan descendants are intellectually honest about deficits.

    And the debate about JFK and tax cuts speaks to a broader misconception in our politics, that Republicans always want to cut taxes, while Democrats don't. Although it's true that tax cuts have become the alpha and omega of GOP economic policy, an astonishing number of conservatives actually advocate tax increases for lower-income Americans because those who don't make enough to pay federal income taxes lack "skin in the game" to really understand big government's villainy. Seriously.

    But if ever advocating a tax cut makes someone a supply-sider, then JFK joins the ranks of other conservative economists like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama (the tax cuts in the stimulus package, for example, were arguably the largest in history). The key distinction is that JFK and his successors saw tax cuts as one of many available economic tools. Indeed Kennedy, like Obama, favored both tax cuts and spending increases to stimulate the economy. He moved first on tax cuts because he didn't think increased spending was initially politically viable, but it remained a large part of his agenda for 1964. "First we'll have your tax cut," he told chief economic adviser Walter Heller, 11 days before his assassination, "then we'll have my expenditures program."

    Kennedy's economic philosophy was less about means—tax cuts versus spending increases—than ends. As he put it in his first address as president: "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich."
    The Myth of JFK as Supply Side Tax Cutter - US News and World Report
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    True, but I earned them, you didn't.
    Really, please tell me what I have and haven't earned as far as wealth and site specific examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Not at all, my god is success.... if I had to start over again, I could, because I worship at the alter of success, not at the alter of class envy....
    good, then by all means, give up everything you have and start over. Oh wait, you wouldn't do that because you know your comments are BS and don't amount to anything but hot air.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 04-17-12 at 03:08 PM.

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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Cars, baseball cards, Hershey bars, bathing suits - hell, the whole damn nation has changed since Kennedy. And in othe breaking news, the suns tonight in the west.


    Didn't like my analysis? JFK is probably rolling in his grave; hell he'd probably sign up as a Repub.

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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule



    Thanks. Kind of you.

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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    You completley misread me then, no worries, it happens.... I am for a flat tax, the only "deductions" I would consider would be for those making less than 10k a year, single mothers, active students. That's it. everyone pays the same percentage of thier income. so I would pay more than most, but we all pay the same percentage. That is fair.
    I would almost agree with you. I think 15% is too low, but it would be leap years better than what we have now.

    But you also put in a tax breaks for single mothers, kids in school, and people making less than 10k. Why? They can pay their taxes just like the rest of us. NO DEDUCTIONS on earning. The only thing I think that should be taken into consideration is welfare benefits should not count as income. But if you have a job and make 10k a year you should pay taxes on those earnings.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Senate fails to advance Buffett rule

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I would almost agree with you. I think 15% is too low, but it would be leap years better than what we have now.

    But you also put in a tax breaks for single mothers, kids in school, and people making less than 10k. Why? They can pay their taxes just like the rest of us. NO DEDUCTIONS on earning. The only thing I think that should be taken into consideration is welfare benefits should not count as income. But if you have a job and make 10k a year you should pay taxes on those earnings.

    Maybe I have a soft heart, but you are right, NO DEDUCTIONS..... and I agree welfare should not be taxed, it's kinda retarded they would hand you money to help then spend all the capitol trying to recollect some of it.... makes little sense.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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