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Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

Redress said:
Why not? You said progressives where socialists and communists. I just illustrated the folly of that point. In fact, the point was that it was absurd, just as calling republicans nazis is absurd, despite a few similarities.
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Like I said, a mixed economy is a socialist idea.

The failure of progressives is the idea that broken gears in a working clock makes the broken gear not broken and that the broken gear will not break the clock. When in truth a broken gear doesn't become unbroken when you put it in a working clock. All it does is break the clock.
 
Oberon said:
'Private property' doesn't mean much if 10 people own it all and 300 million own nothing.
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Name me a time that has happened ever. Your talk is empty if you can't.

The 'efficient market' theory is another exercise in cognitive dissonance; whenever the 'market' becomes perfectly efficient profits equal zero and it self-destructs;
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That is complete bull****. Do you even know the goals of the market?
 
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Oberon said:
A worthy effort; I thanked it for that reason, not because I agree with it.

How do you account for the current love fest of big 'Internationalist' capital and Red China, if they're somehow 'incompatible ideologies'?

Is there any real difference for the average working stiff between a state like Stalin's Soviet Union, a state capitalist form of socialism, and a laissez faire type of private capitalism where a few thousand people end up owning over 90% of the wealth? Both suck up all productivity gains of workers into their own treasuries, along with political power. 'Private property' doesn't mean much if 10 people own it all and 300 million own nothing.

I think they have far more in common than they do differences, and that has become all the more obvious in the last 40 years.

The 'efficient market' theory is another exercise in cognitive dissonance; whenever the 'market' becomes perfectly efficient profits equal zero and it self-destructs; hardly an economic 'goal' a society should shoot for, unless you're a psychopath, maybe. J.D. Rockefeller said 'Competition is a sin' for a very real reason: he believed it, and so did most of the Gilded Age capitalists, which is why they formed trusts and engaged in price-fixing, suppression of labor unions, and fanatically resisted any restrictions on immigration, the latter a very popular activity these days as well.
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Your post can be summed up in one simple answer. Capitalism is nothing like communism, neither in effect nor compromise!!! They are completely oppostie each other!


Tim-
 
Henrin said:
Name me a time that has happened ever. Your talk is empty if you can't.
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The time that the vast majority of the wealth has been concentrated in the hands of the relatively few is most of human history, whether the few was the pharohs or Caesar or the Catholic Church or the royal family or the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers or Romneys.
 
AdamT said:
The time that the vast majority of the wealth has been concentrated in the hands of the relatively few is most of human history, whether the few was the pharohs or Caesar or the Catholic Church or the royal family or the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers or Romneys.
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That is a hackish answer.

First the days of Kings and Queens did not really see open markets but it did see at least one form of socialism so there is one of your failures. Second, it was controlled by the government not set free, so on the second level there is failure. Should I go on to your other failures?

The rest is just garbage. While Romney the Vanderbilts, or the Rockefellers is or were wealthy they did or do not hold the majority of the wealth to the point where everyone else has nothing.

Your little hackish attempt is a failure like all hackish attempts.
 
Well, obviously the 'capitalists' can't answer the basic questions, just fall back on circular reasoning. They also don't understand rhetorical questions based on their own 'logic', either, which is why nobody really bothers to write out comprehensive arguments on message boards any more. lol ....
 
Hicup said:
Your post can be summed up in one simple answer. Capitalism is nothing like communism, neither in effect nor compromise!!! They are completely oppostie each other!


Tim-
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Well, it's certainly simple, no argument there, but it's not an answer, either, but nobody really expected one.

If they were 'completely opposite' they wouldn't be so compatible, but obviously they very much are.
 
Oberon said:
Well, obviously the 'capitalists' can't answer the basic questions, just fall back on circular reasoning. They also don't understand rhetorical questions based on their own 'logic', either, which is why nobody really bothers to write out comprehensive arguments on message boards any more. lol ....
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Your argument against capitalism didn't make any sense and showed a clear lack of understanding on your part. Sorry that you failed, but you did. Live with it.
 
Allen West is an ignorant man who thinks far too much of himself.


"If you look at the application for a security clearance, I have a clearance that even the president of the United States cannot obtain because of my background. - Alan West"​


When I was in the Marines, I was a diesel mechanic. Worked on the 5 ton trucks and the HUMMV's. I was at Camp Lejune & Camp Johnson and I could look out into the bay over towards Camp Geiger and watch the Marine Recon's doing their thing like picking up someone into their speed boat from the water over and over again. Cool stuff. The point I'm getting at is that when I was in, I never met one Recon that I know of. Or any special forces that I know of. I'm sure I did, but they never bragged about it, talked about it or initiated a conversation about it. Then after my service was done, you'd be amazed at how many Recon, Seals, Green Berets... you name it that I seemed to run into. Of course all but about 1% were totally full of ****. Allen West reminds me of all the FoS people I met trying to grab glory with trumped up lies.
 
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Henrin said:
Your argument against capitalism didn't make any sense and showed a clear lack of understanding on your part. Sorry that you failed, but you did. Live with it.
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I wasn't making any argument for or against capitalism, just asking a question of those who have a simplistic, inaccurate fantasy built around some fairy tale they read at Free Republic or heard on a talk show, that's all. If you can't explain your own ideology, that's fine, it doesn't bother me.
 
poweRob said:
Allen West is an ignorant man who thinks far too much of himself.


"If you look at the application for a security clearance, I have a clearance that even the president of the United States cannot obtain because of my background. - Alan West"​


When I was in the Marines, I was a diesel mechanic. Worked on the 5 ton trucks and the HUMMV's. I was at Camp Lejune & Camp Johnson and I could look out into the bay over towards Camp Geiger and watch the Marine Recon's doing their thing like picking up someone into their speed boat from the water over and over again. Cool stuff. The point I'm getting at is that when I was in, I never met one Recon that I know of. Or any special forces that I know of. I'm sure I did, but they never bragged about it, talked about it or initiated a conversation about it. Then after my service was done, you'd be amazed at how many Recon, Seals, Green Berets... you name it that I seemed to run into. Of course all but about 1% were totally full of ****. Allen West reminds me of all the FoS people I met trying to grab glory with trumped up lies.
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Yes. The Innernetz message boards are also full of battle-hardened, 'Special Ops Ubermenschs', Ivy League educated lawyers, economics PhD's and the like. Nobody has real jobs, everybody is independently wealthy, self-made, and extremely photogenic as well !

lol ...
 
Oberon said:
'Special Ops Ubermenschs', Ivy League educated lawyers, economics PhD's and the like. Nobody has real jobs, everybody is independently wealthy, self-made, and extremely photogenic as well !

lol ...
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Hahahaha this is funny because of Debate Politics. We've got a few guys here who you'd think were part of SEAL Team 1.
 
Most boards have them. There must be millions of them, which means there are only about three people left to do everything else in the U.S. No wonder we're in trouble ... those three people must be pretty stressed out by now.
 
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Oberon said:
I wasn't making any argument for or against capitalism, just asking a question of those who have a simplistic, inaccurate fantasy built around some fairy tale they read at Free Republic or heard on a talk show, that's all. If you can't explain your own ideology, that's fine, it doesn't bother me.
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Well then your question showed a complete lack of understanding of capitalism and didn't make any sense. Doesn't really change much.

And I can defend it just fine, but you have to say something with some understanding behind it and make sense first.
 
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Oberon said:
'Private property' doesn't mean much if 10 people own it all and 300 million own nothing.
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That's a valid point. Please inform us if we arrive at the situation where 10 people own everything in the US and the remaining 300 million own nothing.
 
The difference between a socialist and a communist is that former would love to be the latter...if he could still travel in private jets and drink the best booze and wear the best clothes and live in the best neighborhoods. Socialism is for the people, not the socialist.

The problem is about half this country DOES NOT CARE if congress has 80 communist members just as long as that half of the country continues to get their food stamps, free cell phones, section 8 housing vouchers etc. It's all part of the Cloward-Piven strategy to collapse the system.

Socialism and communism are alike in that both are systems of production for use based on public ownership of the means of production and centralized planning. Socialism grows directly out of capitalism; it is the first form of the new society. Communism is a further development of socialism. Even Marx agreed with that.

Why do progressives/socialists deny this?

But...Communist is such an ugly word... Progressive is much nicer, don’t you think?
 
Grant said:
Do you think America has moved to the Left or to the Right over the past couple of generations?
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I would say that from a legalistic stand point, America has leaned more Right. Moreover, if many of the states that went (more) Republican since the 2010 mid-term election had their way, they'd push the country more Right from a legal perspective. In that regard, how would that America any different from the Middle-Eastern countries we've witnessed from afar retain a particular party in power for upwards of 20-35 years? To be sure, the only thing that truly separates us from them where the hold on power is concerned is in countries like Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Egypt it's been a matter of one man rule (for the most part; the Baath Party in Iraq and religious zealots in Iran notwithstanding).

Think about it...think long and hard. And while you're at it consider which party's politics have been in play the majority of the time since the 80's.

Are the American people as free as they once were? Just as self reliant and confident?
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Well, ask yourself these simple questions:

1) Have your moments been restricted? Can you not go wherever you please both within your city? Your State? Your country? Or do you have to show your papers at every checkpoint?

2) Can you not still say whatever you want short of yelling "FIRE" in a crowded room?

3) Have you or anyone you know been pulled from the peaceful confines of your home against your will WITHOUT explanation or WITHOUT a warrant?

That their future as a proud and independent people spreading democracy throughout the world is inviolate? It doesn't appear that way to me. Instead the American people are turning on each other, participating in class warfare and destroying their economy.
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Well, when you have economic instability and equality for as long as it's been present in this country, when people are are assailed for no other reason than to trim expenditures for budgetary concerns and when regulations which could help move the nation forward but are instead stimmied for political reasons than to win political points, I'd say there's a reason the "class wars", "race wars" and "religious wars" have seemed to take root.

There doesn't seem to be any American heroes to inspire anymore, and if there are genuine heroes there are always being shot down by the usual suspects. Hollywood creates more American villains, especially among members of their own government, than any other type.
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I have no comment on your last paragraph frankly because it doesn't make much sense. :confused:
 
Henrin said:
Like I said, a mixed economy is a socialist idea.

The failure of progressives is the idea that broken gears in a working clock makes the broken gear not broken and that the broken gear will not break the clock. When in truth a broken gear doesn't become unbroken when you put it in a working clock. All it does is break the clock.
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In this case all of congress is socialist, as were our founding fathers. The problem with far end nutso libertarianism is that it fails to see things in anything but extremes.
 
Redress said:
Why not? You said progressives where socialists and communists. I just illustrated the folly of that point. In fact, the point was that it was absurd, just as calling republicans nazis is absurd, despite a few similarities.
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More likely I said something like first they were socialist, then they were liberals and now they are progressives.

I took all the talking points from the socialist party USA and the progressives site you offered. The order for their desires is different. Their wording is slightly different. But many of the points are chillingly the same. Radical Karl said it best, "From each...to each..." And the socialists and progressives agree. They only differ in how to make it happen.
 
AdamT said:
The time that the vast majority of the wealth has been concentrated in the hands of the relatively few is most of human history, whether the few was the pharohs or Caesar or the Catholic Church or the royal family or the Vanderbilts, Rockefellers or Romneys.
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Recent, relevant history shows a different list. Here are the top ten Americans with wealth from Forbes:


Rank Name Net Worth Age Residence Source
1 Bill Gates $59 B 55 Medina, Washington Microsoft
2 Warren Buffett $39 B 81 Omaha, Nebraska Berkshire Hathaway
3 Larry Ellison $33 B 67 Woodside, California Oracle
4 Charles Koch $25 B 75 Wichita, Kansas diversified
4 David Koch $25 B 71 New York, New York diversified
6 Christy Walton $24.5 B 56 Jackson, Wyoming Wal-Mart
7 George Soros $22 B 81 Katonah, New York hedge funds
8 Sheldon Adelson $21.5 B 78 Las Vegas, Nevada casinos
9 Jim Walton $21.1 B 63 Bentonville, Arkansas Wal-Mart
10 Alice Walton $20.9 B 61 Fort Worth, Texas Wal-Mart

That hardly seems like all of the wealth or even most of the wealth.
The federal government pisses away more than a trillion dollars each year that it doesn't even have.
Workers of the world unite (and you will all be equal in your abject poverty and misery).
 
poweRob said:
"If you look at the application for a security clearance, I have a clearance that even the president of the United States cannot obtain because of my background. - Alan West"​
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The point he was making is that unless one is the President of the United States one is very unlikely to get a high level security clearance after admitting to using coke, being a rabble, excuse me, community organizer, and the like. One man has integrity. The other is the one term Marxist flexible president Barrack Hussein Obama.
 
Redress said:
In this case all of congress is socialist, as were our founding fathers. The problem with far end nutso libertarianism is that it fails to see things in anything but extremes.
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If anyone here is seeing in extremes it is the people that won't admit that a mixed economy is a socialist idea. You won't accept anything as socialism but the classical use of the word which is NOT the only form of socialism that exists.

And you either don't understand a mixed economy or you don't understand the founders as there is no way they qualify.
 
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Redress said:
In this case all of congress is socialist, as were our founding fathers.
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Warning! Kook alert! Kook alert! Remain calm. This person's perspective is a bit warped, in this case.

The problem with far end nutso libertarianism is that it fails to see things in anything but extremes.
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Yeah. We are getting to the cliff hanger near the end of this episode in our history. Will Little Nell be saved?
 
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