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Thread: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Cons point out that not everyone measures infant mortality the same way so we should just discard the whole infant mortality rates. To make their point legitimate, they (the researchers who do this sort of thing, not us, as we don't have access to all the information) should show how much it affects the statistics.

    How many are born underweight or under a certain length each year? Is it enough to alter the rate by a few tenths or several full percentage points? To summarily dismiss the entire report because of the different methods used without further justification isn't quite enough.
    Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but *seem* to be implying that the same statisticians are looking at all the data from every country. That's generally not true.

    Each country compiles their own numbers, using their own systems, with their own guide lines. Most are not trying to make their statistics comparable to other countries. Most are simply trying to make their government look as good as possible, and often are willing to slightly bend those numbers to achieve that goal. You should read up on Thomas Sowell's story of working for the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Or what Carter did to the US Geological survey.

    In any case, once the statistics are released, organizations like the WHO, will compile those numbers, but they often do so on face value. Usually this is because they can't do anything else. The data from government controlled hospitals, to government reporting agencies, to the official statistics is questionable. But the government is obviously not going to make public raw data that could be used to contradict their own statements. So often the raw data is not published, or how that got that raw data, nor how they interpreted it to the official numbers.

    So when you look at those numbers, you really don't know what went into them. If you think the statisticians are making adjustments between countries to account for differences, that's just not true. The WHO and others that compile such numbers, don't have the data to make such adjustments. The people at the government agencies, would never adjust their numbers higher for fear of being removed.

    And some of the differences are quite interesting. Many have a limit on weight. If the baby is less than X weight, they are not considered alive. They are either abandoned completely, or helped, but if they die, it doesn't count. Other have a limit on time. If the baby is X weeks early, it's not alive. I have even read that some have a length limit. It must be such and such a length, or it is not counted. Some have special exceptions. Mother on crack, drunk or something, and the baby dies, that's not counted.

    Then there are some systems where the incentives are such, that doctors simply don't report it. If they report a baby died, they could get into trouble. So instead, they just don't report it. This is the case in Cuba and a few other countries.

    Another common problem is the sill-born loophole. Many countries, if the child dies within 24 hours of birth, they call it a still born. The reason of course is that a still born is not considered a live birth, and thus isn't reported on the infant mortality. Many suspect that Japan and a few others do this.

    By the way, this is why survival rates are such good measurements. You either have cancer or you don't. You don't "sort of" have cancer. It's either yes or no. There's not much wiggle room there. Then you are either alive or dead in 5 years. Five years after you got the cancer, you are either in the ground, or alive and kicking. That's all there is too it. And of course, we rock on survival rates, and lead the world.

    The Bottom line is, it seems like you need more justification to accept those infant mortality rates, than I do to dismiss them.

    And we haven't even talked about the causes yet. Infant mortality isn't simply about an infant in a hospital. If your a crack whore, and pop out a kid, and take him home where your pimp ends up killing it, that's infant mortality, and has nothing at all to do with the health care system.

    Nor do most of the other causes of infant death. For example obese mothers tend to have more risky pregnancies. Of course, being on drugs, or drinking alcohol, even smoking can cause you have a high risk birth. All of these are things the hospital couldn't possibly prevent.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    If American liberals are communists, and Obamacare is socialist, then most of the countries near the top of that list are also communist/socialist by the same logic. It's also cherry-picked data.
    I haven't seen anyone claim that Liberals ARE communists but there is not doubt that liberals often supported communism, and still do, despite its history.

    Liberals are not only naive fools, the not very useful idiots, they are dangerous fools.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I haven't seen anyone claim that Liberals ARE communists but there is not doubt that liberals often supported communism, and still do, despite its history.

    Liberals are not only naive fools, the not very useful idiots, they are dangerous fools.
    I really don't know whether you're serious sometimes, or just being a POE.

    But your partisan hackery gives you no standing to talk about who's a fool and who isn't.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I really don't know whether you're serious sometimes, or just being a POE.

    But your partisan hackery gives you no standing to talk about who's a fool and who isn't.
    Leftists cannot deal with facts. Their arguments have to be, must be, ad hominem.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Leftists cannot deal with facts. Their arguments have to be, must be, ad hominem.
    This coming from a guy who has stated, plainly and clearly that if you're a liberal that you're destroying the country.

    I find that insulting not because I'm a liberal or a "leftist" but because it's people like you that turn political discource into rampant stupidity.

    No longer can we just disagree on the best approach to solving a problem, because if you don't agree with that policy or that solution it's "going to destroy the country".

    Your partisanship knows no bounds.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This coming from a guy who has stated, plainly and clearly that if you're a liberal that you're destroying the country.

    I find that insulting not because I'm a liberal or a "leftist" but because it's people like you that turn political discource into rampant stupidity.

    No longer can we just disagree on the best approach to solving a problem, because if you don't agree with that policy or that solution it's "going to destroy the country".

    Your partisanship knows no bounds.
    More ad hominem.

    This is inevitably what happens when your position is untenable.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This coming from a guy who has stated, plainly and clearly that if you're a liberal that you're destroying the country.

    I find that insulting not because I'm a liberal or a "leftist" but because it's people like you that turn political discource into rampant stupidity.

    No longer can we just disagree on the best approach to solving a problem, because if you don't agree with that policy or that solution it's "going to destroy the country".

    Your partisanship knows no bounds.
    It depends on if you are really a liberal or one who has been hijacked by the Stateists. Real liberals are fine, they believe in live and let live without many rules or restrictions, to be able to do as they see fit, but many in the Democratic party are not liberals, just as many Republicans are not conservatives. They want big government, with rules and regulations to strangle the freedom and liberty this country was built on.
    If it sounds like Marx and acts like Stalin...it must be Obama

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This coming from a guy who has stated, plainly and clearly that if you're a liberal that you're destroying the country.

    I find that insulting not because I'm a liberal or a "leftist" but because it's people like you that turn political discource into rampant stupidity.

    No longer can we just disagree on the best approach to solving a problem, because if you don't agree with that policy or that solution it's "going to destroy the country".

    Your partisanship knows no bounds.
    Liberals are destroying the country. WTF do you think parasites and moochers and leeches do to the host ?

    "Free stuff" ain't FREE !!!

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Liberals are destroying the country. WTF do you think parasites and moochers and leeches do to the host ?

    "Free stuff" ain't FREE !!!
    The government is under control by mind control waves from sputnik...

    this is why the senate is communist...

    this guy needs launched out of a cannon and into a federal building face.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapunzel52 View Post
    It depends on if you are really a liberal or one who has been hijacked by the Stateists. Real liberals are fine, they believe in live and let live without many rules or restrictions, to be able to do as they see fit, but many in the Democratic party are not liberals, just as many Republicans are not conservatives. They want big government, with rules and regulations to strangle the freedom and liberty this country was built on.
    It seems genuine Liberals, those of the old school who truly believed in human rights and freedoms coupled with a free economy, were highjacked by the left over the years until and we now we find ourselves in the present situation of very strong distinctions between the two parties. The Left has repeatedly been discredited for their politics and fiscal policies, their racial and class warfare, and this has led to the genuine Liberals, the smarter ones, having to move to the Conservatives.

    As we see repeatedly, when Liberals are confronted with their own history, their economic failures, their choosing the wrong sides in international disputes, they resort to their usual personal attacks. And that is understandable. Where else can they go?

    This is just another recent finding, one which is always readily apparent, that perhaps deserves a thread of its own.
    What the Public Knows about the Political Parties | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
    Last edited by Grant; 04-25-12 at 12:33 PM.

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