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Thread: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You are speaking in metaphor. Be clear so that there is no confusion please.

    j-mac
    What don't you understand?

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    What don't you understand?
    I understand what I think you are saying here, but instead of using metaphor to relate it, I am asking that you be clear, IOW just say how you see this in effect.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I understand what I think you are saying here, but instead of using metaphor to relate it, I am asking that you be clear, IOW just say how you see this in effect.

    j-mac


    Yeah yeah.

    What you're really trying to do, is to get him to phrase it in anyway to help you imply he's a communist.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post


    Yeah yeah.

    What you're really trying to do, is to get him to phrase it in anyway to help you imply he's a communist.

    No, really I am just trying to understand. We have already established that this is a tenant of communism that he espouses, but before I respond, I'd like to know that I have a clear understanding so that the usual weaseling out of meanings, and statements that I have come to expect. So for once it would be nice if just one time it could be answered directly.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, really I am just trying to understand. We have already established that this is a tenant of communism that he espouses, but before I respond, I'd like to know that I have a clear understanding so that the usual weaseling out of meanings, and statements that I have come to expect. So for once it would be nice if just one time it could be answered directly.


    j-mac
    The problem with the way you try to associate certain ideas with an overall philosophy is very intellectually dishonest.

    Just because one for example may support a progressive tax, does not mean that they support the overall philosophy of Communism.

    To say that is at dishonest as saying that if you like facial hair, and Hitler liked facial hair, well that makes you a Nazi.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I understand what I think you are saying here, but instead of using metaphor to relate it, I am asking that you be clear, IOW just say how you see this in effect.

    j-mac
    You want me to say "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

    That's also an idea that's not without merit but becomes abusive when applied to society as a whole. Many family units, for example, operate according to this principle, but emotional ties act as the glue that makes it work.

    Now, what do you despise about communism?

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    The problem with the way you try to associate certain ideas with an overall philosophy is very intellectually dishonest.

    Just because one for example may support a progressive tax, does not mean that they support the overall philosophy of Communism.

    To say that is at dishonest as saying that if you like facial hair, and Hitler liked facial hair, well that makes you a Nazi.

    Oh please. You are not even the one that I am trying to speak with on this, unless GhostlyJoe is your sock puppet. So, instead of trying to make excuse so that he can dodge making himself clear in plain language, why don't you let him answer?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    You want me to say "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

    No, I want you to be clear, and succinct so that we may debate it honestly. Instead of trying to figure out my intentions just answer the question.

    That's also an idea that's not without merit but becomes abusive when applied to society as a whole.
    I disagree. See, a man's ability, IMHO, is not property of someone else. IOW, If I bust my ass to make it, then why should you be entitled to my labor?

    Many family units, for example, operate according to this principle, but emotional ties act as the glue that makes it work.
    This is debatable as well. If a job of raising children is successful, then the children will learn that it is their hard work that makes them a success, not relying on someone else..

    Now, what do you despise about communism?
    I will give you a start, but I am still waiting for a clarification, as for the failed system of communism, just take a look around at those still existing. Their populations live in squalor, no freedom of speech, or freedom period. Communism is responsible for more atrocity, and death of citizenry then any war. It is not a system that want's to see all boats rise, but rather sees its job as lowering the lofted to that of the depressed, and calls that equal. You show me a communist system that has actually worked, and made people prosperous and I'll show you a damned fine propaganda job.

    Now mine please.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    There is a difference between heading north and standing on the North Pole. I'd just like to point out again that many folks who claim to despise "communism" can't help but see the world as competing collectives. How can you claim to embrace individualism but then refuse to acknowledge it?
    Communism is individualism?

    When problems arrive in any society, as they inevitably do, the proposed from the left is always more leftism. This is despite the fact that leftist policies are often the source of the problem. There will therefore be a never-ending trend towards leftism until the government is in absolute control over formerly free men. Thus free people everywhere must always fight against the leftists and leftism, in whatever form it might take.

    And while leftists might argue that they only want a little more government control we can see on this thread, as just one minor example, how sensitive they are towards critics of Communism, the worst scourge of the last century, and attack personally those who dare speak out against any suspected communists.

    All Leftists, all of them, are of the same cloth. While they might debate which form of leftism is best there is no middle of the road with them. You are either of the left or are their enemy.

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    Re: Rep. Allen West Says Up To 81 House Members Are Communists

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    You say that, but yet you do so.

    Understand that stereotyping is assuming that people within a group who share at least one trait must then also share other traits. When you equate American liberals with Soviet communists and Karl Marx, you're grouping people into collectives so you can denounce them.

    What's more, it's all basically for semantic effect. The idea here is to borrow the negative associations of historical communism (revolution, violence, equality of outcome, political oppression) and apply it your political opponents.
    Whenever Communists are criticized it is always leftists who leap to their defense. Always.

    Quite often they will make the claim that it wasn't real Communism that the Communists of the last century practiced, despite their support at the time, but some sincere but misguided form of Communism that was incorrectly applied in a manner inappropriate to the real thing. Thus another kick at the can is implied. Leftists defend leftists, no matter the degree of leftism.

    Leftists are the enemy of free people everywhere. They will never argue how we can make people more free, and responsible, but only create class envy, class warfare and work towards the breakdown of society. That's just what they do.

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